TMI Talk with Dr. Mary

Episode 62: It’s Not Willpower: The Real Reasons We Struggle With Food with Gina Worful, RD

• mary g • Season 11 • Episode 62

Share episode

In this conversation, we unpack the hidden layers of our relationship with food—how it’s shaped by culture, childhood, trauma, biology, and the nervous system. 

Gina Worful, Founder of the Mastering Mindfulness Institute, is a registered dietitian who watched countless people struggle inside the conventional health model—white-knuckling their way through diets, blaming themselves when their body disagreed, and feeling more confused than empowered. She took a different approach: one that helps people reclaim their power with food, rebuild trust in their body, and understand the deeper patterns that I have seen often surface during perimenopause.

What you will learn 

  • Why diets and willpower often fail and how shame keeps people stuck in cycles of control and “falling off the wagon.”
  • The difference between blood sugar crashes and nervous system dysregulation, and how each uniquely drives cravings.
  • How childhood experiences (like food scarcity, “clean your plate” rules, or cultural beauty ideals) can deeply shape eating patterns.
  • The powerful role of self-trust, pleasure, and embodiment in healing our relationship with food.
  • Practical tools for tuning into the body—like breath, awareness, and mindful eating practices—that bring regulation and freedom back to the table.
  • Why dropping into the body isn’t always comfortable (especially with trauma) and how to gauge your capacity so you don’t overwhelm your system.
  • Real-life stories, from mindful indulgence to scar tissue release, that show how body awareness can be both healing and empowering.

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction to TMI Talk with Dr. Mary

00:03 Understanding Perimenopause and Food Relationships

00:40 Introducing Gina Worful and Her Approach

00:56 Exploring the Layers of Food Relationships

04:32 The Impact of Diet Culture and Shame

05:25 The Role of Control and Willpower

11:14 The Brazilian Perspective on Body Image

21:54 The Science Behind Cravings and Stress

33:34 Practical Tips for Managing Eating Habits

37:41 External Reminders and Executive Function

37:58 Emotional Eating and Childhood Wounds

39:09 Scarcity Mindset and Food Habits

43:04 Reconnecting with Your Body

52:49 Understanding Capacity and Discomfort

01:00:56 Mindful Eating and Pleasure

01:07:23 Conclusion and Contact Information

You can learn more about Gina below:

https://www.masteringmindfulness.institute


instagram.com/gina.worful



Want support for perimenopause that goes beyond hormones?

Whether you (or your clients) are taking HRT but still having symptoms, not ready for it, or can’t tolerate it...there’s more we can do.

I’ll be sharing practical tools from a movement and rehab perspective, focusing on the nervous system, fascia, lymph, viscera, and musculoskeletal system.

If you want updates on workshops, resources, and strategies to support this phase of life more fully, would love you to join my email list.

Subscribe to my email list here

I’ll see you in 2 weeks!

PS:

If you are interested in being a guest on the show, please fill out the form here.


Welcome back to TMI talk with Dr. Mary. In this episode, we're gonna be talking about how to build a better relationship with food during the perimenopause transition. It can be extremely overwhelming with all of the information that's coming out there. There's so many protocols, there's so many shoulds and should nots that I found that it can trigger some previous eating issues or eating disorders that. Have been at bay for some time'cause the body is shifting and so it can be confusing. Why we can't stick to protocols? Well that's because our bodies aren't meant to stick to protocols. In this episode I brought on Gina Worful and she's a registered dietician who saw people's struggle in the conventional health model. She took a different approach to help them reclaim their power with their food choices and trust their body. She's the founder of Mastering Mindfulness Institute. In this conversation, we unpack the hidden layers of our relationship with food. It's shaped by culture, childhood trauma, and our nervous system. And so what you'll learn in this episode is why diets and willpower often fail, and how shame can keep us stuck in these cycles of control and falling off the wagon, the difference between blood sugar crashes and nervous system dysregulation, how each uniquely drives different cravings. How childhood experiences like food scarcity clean up your plate rules or cultural beauty ideas can really deeply shape our eating patterns. The powerful role of self-trust, pleasure, and embodiment in healing our relationship with food Practical tools for tuning into the body, such as breath awareness and mindful eating practices that can bring regulation and freedom back to the table while dropping into the body isn't always comfortable, especially if we have a history of trauma and how to gauge your capacity so you don't overwhelm your system. And real life stories from mindful indulgence to understanding how body awareness can be both healing and empowering. And so without further ado, we'll jump into the episode.

mary:

Welcome back to TMI talk with Dr. Mary where we dive into non-traditional forms of health that were once labeled as taboo or dismissed as Woo. I'm your host, Dr. Mary Grimberg. I'm an orthopedic and pelvic floor physical therapist who helps people navigate perimenopause by addressing the fascia. Lymphatic system, musculoskeletal system, viscera and the nervous system. My whole body approach goes beyond hormone replacement therapy, showing how movement and rehab professionals can play a much bigger role in this process. And now we'll start our next episode.

Speaker:

Welcome, Gina, the podcast. I'm excited you're here. Oh, I'm so happy to be here. I've been loving our conversation we had before going on camera. I know. Just now. So, I am really excited to dive into this with you because. Relationship with food can, can really show us a lot of different things and I think it's important for people to see yeah, what you're about to help us with. And, you know, a lot of people like that listen to the podcast are also health and movement professionals. So I think that it can help us as practitioners, as well as the people that we work with. And I truly believe the more that we work on ourselves, the more we can help others. So.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Our relationship with food is like every person has a relationship with food. Mm-hmm. And from the minute that we're born, you know, you're born as a baby and you're crying and you're frantic, and then you start breastfeeding and then it's like, oh, like I'm safe, I'm okay. And then from then on, we have like all these life experiences and memories and moments where like food gives us a different experience. Like it gives us love, it gives us safety, it gives us celebration, all these different emotions and feelings. And so every person on this planet has this relationship with food, with like, how does food make me feel? How do my feelings influence my food choices? And if you really look at it through this lens that every single person on the planet has this relationship with food and it tells us like our history, we can learn a lot about ourselves. Like, what am I feeling? How does it. Bring up different feelings and different memories, and it can be a really potent path to self-discovery.

Speaker:

Yeah, no, I, I agree. I think that, um, I think there's a lot of shame around food, especially with women too, and growing up in the nineties with like all these super skinny bodies and everybody looking the same way and trying to get to this, this point, there's been a, I've seen a ton of eating disorders and people just being feeling shameful with their bodies and not being able to stop eating certain foods, even though they know that, you know, it makes them gain weight or they don't feel good and things like that. And so where do you think that. Comes from that, that kind of relationship. I, I mean, I can relate it back to the Victoria's Secret era with the fashion shows and like a lot of pressure on women's bodies and stuff like that, so,

Speaker 2:

yeah. Yeah. There's. I think there's a lot of pride in our culture on like control and discipline and intensity and like with diets and like achieving a certain body type and dieting almost becoming like this next new cool, edgy thing of like, do this thing, do this program control and control has become like this glorified thing. But what happens when a lot of people start to control, they're trying to like mentally use this mental grit and discipline and willpower. And so a lot of people go through that process of where they're like, I am, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do this glorified plan that we've been told and then just hanging on for dear life. And that is not what really leads us to like this feeling of freedom. And so at any moment you could lose that sense of control and. It puts you back through this like shame cycle and then you start to believe like, there's an inherent flaw with me. Why can't I do it? But what we're not told by the health industry is that knowing how to eat healthy or even getting a nutrition plan or a diet plan is only about 5% of what drives our behaviors. What really drives our behaviors is so much deeper. It's our feelings, it's our emotions, it's our memories, it's our relationship with food. And so when we get this like culture driven excitement around discipline and control, and following the plan and the program, it, it can really lead us to a loss of control and propelling us like into like this shame looping cycle. Um, nobody really teaches us how do we feel like in harmony with our bodies and listen to it. Trust it. And so if you continuously lose control over and over and over again, we're treated as though our bodies are wrong. That our body is the enemy without an understanding of what's actually happening inside of our bodies. And so all the things to try to like suppress appetite, portion control, writing things down, accountability, all these means of like tightening control, control, control. It's like we're putting shackles on our wrists of like control, control, control without ever teaching us what's really happening and how to trust ourselves. Um, I'm not sure if that really answers your question. No, it

Speaker:

does.'cause it's funny because even now, I mean, there's so many restrictions. People, like there's a new diet every, it feels like every week. Yeah. Right. And I remember. Just over the years following those and being like, oh, okay, well non-fat. Okay. And then, Nope, fat's good now. Oh, okay. Dairy's good. Oh, nope. Dairy's bad. Uh, drink water. Oh, not that water. And you get burnt out. Yeah. And I have worked a lot with like my own stuff to, with body dysmorphia, binge restrict, like a lot of stuff. And pretty much every girl that I grew up with was dealing with some eating issue and the, the men weren't as much like at all. And I remember thinking like, this is insane. Yeah. This is a lot of people and men still have their eating issues too, but I think that we are like pre-programmed to like, hate our bodies. Yeah. Um, and I've brought this up before, but just knowing that like, um, in the, in another episode, but like, we need cholesterol to make progesterone. And I always say like a moment of peace for the women that went through menopause in the nineties because they were told not to eat fat. Mm-hmm. And to do high cardio, which is like the opposite of what we're learning now and how much those just women have had to deal with. Yeah. In, in that. And then the shame cycle, like women get shamed all the time in the media for being fat or something, like gaining weight. And I'm like, that woman just had a baby. Even if she didn't just have a baby, like maybe she's going through depression or menopause or somebody died. Like there's not, there's none of that. And the people that usually say it usually look the same as the person that they're insulting,

Speaker 2:

which I'm like, interesting. Okay. Yeah. You know, I think that we're just infused with these messages that our bodies are wrong and that is because. Having a solution is profitable.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

So if you believe that your body is wrong and broken, you're gonna pay for a solution to fix it. Mm-hmm. And that isn't to minimize the fact that health issues are a real thing. And it's helpful to learn about how to eat healthy. It's helpful to learn how to take care of our bodies. You know, it's helpful to get our bodies healthy, like we do want our bodies to, to, to heal and to help us thrive. But I do think there's a huge misunderstanding of what really influences our own self-trust and how loving our bodies is the most potent path for them to heal. And that we're are infused with these messages of that like our bodies are broken. And the truth is our bodies are not broken. We just have to understand what they're telling us that they're needing and how to work with them. And then we can move into this place of. Harmony in partnership with our bodies instead of feeling like my body is the enemy and my body is wrong. Um, something that I've really loved that really helped me as we're talking about like bodies and, and self-love, like something that has really helped me really deepen the love of like just the human body is observing Brazilian culture and I've been learning this dance called souk and it's Brazilian. And so a lot of the instructors are Brazilian. And so I've been to different retreats and different classes and there were instructors are Brazilian and Brazilians. I have seen so many different shapes and sizes of bodies, but the one thing that was consistent was they love inhabiting their bodies. They don't see something is wrong with my body. And I remember being at this retreat and there is this woman, she was just like these extraordinary curves and, and you see her dance and she just inhabits her body like she's in love with it. And she said being sexy is a choice.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And she's like, I dance and I move'cause it feels good inside of my body. And it was so beautiful to see that like, their culture isn't infiltrated with these messages that like, your body is wrong and something is wrong with it. Like, they choose to just fully inhabit the body that they're in without like these messages that we have that's so like, your body is wrong. It's really beautiful. Oh, I love that. Because

Speaker:

what a gift. Like that's true wealth.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I mean, you know. I'm happy. I've gotten to a place that I have with my body, but it's taken so much time. The amount of weighing and picture taking and how much tape, like what is it? Like a measuring tape and like binge, like restricting and falling diets and you just get so wrapped up in it that you stay small'cause you're so obsessed with It's traumatic. Yeah. You stay small. Like you're so focused on that. Like you can't get out of it And it can be disabling, like it can be like a never ending thing. And I think there's also some anger that can come up too.'cause it's like there are, there are corporations that have benefited from this and still do, and I repeatedly say it, I keep seeing certain dermatology practices in Austin post billboards of the perfect female body. I say it in quotes, like the conventional beauty. Could, seeking conventional booty makes a lot of money.'cause it, it pokes on people's insecurities Sure does. Makes a lot of money.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And it's, that's, that's the question is, is it, can, can we go to sleep at night knowing that we are raising up humanity or and empowering people or are we preying on insecurities?

Speaker 2:

We can and we can also start within ourselves.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

To not subscribe to that. Bringing awareness to it, I think

Speaker:

is the first thing.'cause I think people are unaware. Mm-hmm. A lot of times.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I mean, it's. I think for most people it's a lifelong journey that like you decide to take when you're, when you're ready to start, like questioning some of those things and the messages that we're getting. And I think especially like in diet culture, you know, there's the next plan with rules and guidelines and boxes and portions and how much and numbers and calories and, and the truth is, if we learned the basic principles of just how do I care for and nourish my body? And I tuned in and I listened to what does my body need and how much diets wouldn't exist, we wouldn't even need them. But to give you a program that says you can't trust yourself, you need to follow this plan. That's how we create profitable programs that are, you know, billion dollar industry of the weight loss industry now.

Speaker:

Totally. Well,'cause it's, there's really not much money to be made when you teach people to go inward and reflect on themselves. You know? I mean, I think it's incredibly wonderful to help teach people to do that, but I think that Yeah. Checking in, like, instead of saying, for me at least, instead of saying, no, don't eat that cake, it's what, do I really want that cake? Or am I just craving like a carb because I haven't eaten all day?

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And I think like, understanding those messages or like, do I really want that? Or am I gonna have diarrhea after? You know, like, do I want diarrhea or am I willing to take, you know, like you get to, like, you choose if you're okay with having diarrhea, fine, but do you wanna keep having diarrhea? That's the question, you know, so like,

Speaker 2:

like Exactly. It is, it is really, it can, it can be as simple as that, but a lot of people forget that they have the ability to slow down and to really be in choice and say, does this choice honor my body right now? And sometimes it's the health they make the healthier choice and sometimes we indulge, but we do it from a place of conscious connection. Mm-hmm. Like with ourselves of like, do I wanna choose this versus up here? I should, I shouldn't, I don't know. I'm not supposed to. It's breaking the rules, but I want it. Oh, well I already messed up now I might as well binge on it all. And it's like they this weird like rule heady experience. Yeah. Versus just like slowing everything down and like tuning in and being like, wait a second. Is this genuinely what I want? How will this make my body feel? Yeah, there's a lot of power in that.

Speaker:

Well, totally. But again, like I, that's not like a thing that's taught, you know, we don't learn. I teach it, I guess, like in childhood, but like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Well, you teach it. And I think that's, that's wonderful. And I, I want people to, to know you exist to help other people out there dealing with, with this, because, um, I loved one of your posts. I think you got ice cream too twice in a day or something. Yeah. And you were like, yeah. Yeah, because I wanted it twice in a day and I just, I loved that.'cause I think that when you see people, um, in any capacity, like in health and wellness and they're indu, like indulging it, like gives other people permission. Like, oh, it is okay to have those, that when I want them,

Speaker 2:

I've come a long way. It's been a journey for me, for sure. Mm-hmm. I mean, it was, it was not always that way for me. I'm a, you know, classically trained dietician and so I for sure was very much a rule follower and strived to eat as healthy as possible, as much as I could all the time. And it really affected my relationship with food. And then I started like really losing control over my food. And I think that that happens when you try so hard to mentally control and strive to eat so perfect all the time. And then you're deprived of pleasure. And from a really deep place is like, gosh. I'm just dying to feel good. And then as soon as like, I would eat something that I wasn't supposed to, it was like a downward spiral and it Oh,

Speaker 3:

yeah. You know,

Speaker 2:

I did a lot of the things that I was taught in school, you know, like track your food, count calories if you wanna lose weight. Yeah. Calculate how many calories you need, subtract 500 calories, eat that many in a day, track your food. And it honestly, it really, uh, really affected my relationship with food that took me years to recover. Oh. Food tracking. I just can't.

Speaker:

Yeah. It's just not, it's not sustainable and nobody can sustain it. And there's, there's, there's a lot of freedom. After, like, I felt like for me, same, same, same. Like, I am focusing so much on control, not eating this and looking this way and dah, dah, dah, dah. And I'd look in the mirror and I'd see somebody that weighed like a hundred pounds more than that person. Mm-hmm. And I never knew what body dysmorphia was. And even looking back at pictures of myself, I'm like, oh my God, I was so thin. Hmm. I, like, I was, I was so focused on the weight.'cause my BMI was high, but I, I have dense bones and muscle and I think I hate BMI. Ugh.

Speaker 2:

Yeah,

Speaker:

of course. I, it is the worst, useless, useless piece of information I have ever. For sure. I have no idea why we still use it.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

I am a, I've been obese on that thing like my whole life.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And it's, and hearing that as a child like hip, you gotta be careful. Your BMI is getting big when you're like 12, right. These messages are just like getting so ingrained and I think the whole ozempic stuff too, and I, they're finding ozempic can be helpful for autoimmune diseases and things like that. That's one thing. But the ma like, what it's being really marketed to is like, just get skinny and, and all this stuff. And I'm like, it's a diabetic drug. It's meant for medicine. It's not meant to just, you know, I think

Speaker 2:

ultimately it doesn't really get to like the root The root of what's happening. Yeah. And so a lot of people do struggle to get off of ozempic and then they start fearing and, and I guess I don't really wanna speak to this. Uh, in too many like big generalizations.'cause I, you know, I'm sure there are a lot of people who feel that it had changed their life. Um, of, of course I know people that

Speaker:

it has and I'm not Yeah,

Speaker 2:

for sure. I

Speaker:

want them to do what is best for them. Yeah. But I don't think it's getting to the root,

Speaker 2:

but sometimes it, it doesn't get to the root. And you can start to fear that feeling of hunger and fearing your own body. And, and you can understand if you understand your nervous system and how that plays a role, you'll understand how that influences your appetite. And we're just not taught that. And I think if people understood about really creating safety in their nervous system, they would feel like how that actually influences their self-control, their eating behaviors. Like, um, it's so dependent on your nervous system and a lot of people don't know that. Well,

Speaker:

I think that if people understand like. When your blood sugar's regulated and your nervous system's regulated, you don't crave. Food. Like you don't crave sweets, you don't crave like, it's wild.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like

Speaker:

you don't even, like if you have like a ravenous appetite, like most of the time it's probably what, like spiking and crashing blood sugar and a heightened nervous system. So your cortisols drop drop, is that what you see?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And so you can actually, if you get that feeling of like an intense like craving, you can feel how your body is communicating to you the difference of what it needs. And so this is where like, yes, I think it gets really fun if you start paying attention, you start bringing your attention into your body and you feel, how is my body communicating to me what it's actually needing? Let's just say our bodies were perfectly designed cravings and all overeating and all, let's just say for a minute that our bodies were perfectly designed and it knew exactly what it was doing. And our only goal was to understand its communication and what it's telling us that it's doing. Now we look at it through a different lens and we can start to get a little bit curious. So. I see whenever we go into this response of where like we're overeating or we have like a craving that like insatiable craving. Our body is designed from a survival perspective to get us to DR to eat food. Typically sugar and carbs, like when we're in more of like a survival response. And that's how our body is designed, survival's number one. So if there's like some sort of a stress response or we don't have enough food or we've been dieting or an emotional stress or any kind of stress, our body's designed to like seek sugar and food for survival. So how you can differentiate, well, is it a blood sugar drop? Is it my nervous system? As you can feel and sense, how does your body communicate differently to you? So for example, a blood sugar drop might be like if you haven't had food to eat in a long time, right? Like maybe you waited too long and you can feel like. Let's say you didn't eat for like four or five hours, or you didn't eat enough food and you get that crash and you're like hangry. Maybe you're like kind of angry, you're like starving. You can like feel it in your stomach. You're kind of shaky. You know what I mean? Yeah. That blood sugar. Oh, I know. It might get low blood sugar feeling. Yeah, you might be tired or amped up and you're just like, I need food now. And that can cause this loss of control because your blood sugar dropped and your brain is getting the alarm. We don't have enough food. We don't have enough food. So when you get that alarm, we don't have enough food. Your brain is gonna like take over the controls, drive you to go get food instantly, like whatever it is, and then you eat food to like compensate for not having it. Now, if it's your nervous system, that might feel different in your body. Your nervous system is like when you are. Emotions become too intense for your body or your stress is too intense for your body. Your nervous system is turned on. Your body still has that stress response, but it feels a little bit different. You could even be full. You might, you might be full, you might have had food. You don't really have that low blood sugar shaky, but it could almost feel like one minute you have really good willpower and you're like, I'm going to eat the salad in about 25 minutes. I'm going to eat healthy today. And then all of a sudden a stress response turns on your nervous system. And it's like something takes control over your brain and hijacks your brain and you're like in, almost in like a, some like a trance-like state. And that's the areas of your brain that are switching. Like you've moved from this rational part of your brain when you're. Nervous system is regulated. Your prefrontal cortex, you have good rational thinking, I'm going to eat the salad. And then when your stress turns on, ding, that switches over to your amygdala in the brain and your amygdala is, we need to do everything to protect this human while they're under stress. And so it feels more like you're like, you know, consciously I have health goals. I'm not supposed to eat this, but my body is like a magnet towards like the fridge. And I'm like, I'm watching what I'm doing and I can't stop. And it's like this survival response. Where most people go wrong is that they try to willpower their way to not eat the food. In this state, if you try to keep the food away in this state, it feels impossible because you're almost in this like very primal, animalistic survival state. You're fighting your own biology. It's very hard. It's very hard. And what's really interesting is when this happens, if we get a little bit sciencey for a minute. Yes, bring it. Okay. So normally when your nervous system is regulated and you're like, you're in that parasympathetic state, you're not. You're calm, you're in rest and digest. Normally you eat food and then how much you eat some food, and that sends a signal up your vagus nerve, and then it gets processed in your brain to release those signals that make you feel full. You've had food, but when you're in that stressed state, the area of your brain in your limbic system that processes that signal gets disconnected. It's like deactivated in your brain, so you don't feel the feeling of being full and your fullness signals get distorted. So if you're stressed and you're like. Trying to eat mindfully and listen to your body and it, it feels impossible because your fullness signals are distorted. You can't feel them.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And then like your amygdala also increases your drive for sugar. So you feel like you just desire sugar more, you desire carbs more. I can't feel any fullness, sensations. And so some people try to like eat mindfully in that state. And it's really hard. It's kind of impossible because you're not properly picking up the signals from your body that tells you when you've had enough food to eat.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So then it feels like, I can't trust myself with food. I'm in this ravenous, animalistic like state where I'm craving sugar. You like can't stop yourself. You can't stop yourself. You feel like those

Speaker:

are those moments where you're like, what is wrong with me? What is wrong with me? Oh my God. How many times have you like I have had that? Yes. Many times.

Speaker 2:

Totally. Yeah. What is wrong with me?'cause there's a, how did I do this? How did I do this? 10 minutes ago, I just had goals. I was just motivated. Yeah. I was just like, you're doing it this time. Yeah. But then something like took over my brain and I watched myself go through this downfall. Yeah. And I couldn't stop. And it's because you like lose the connection to the sensation of being full. And your desire for sugar, which is protection, really goes up. And even what's so interesting is your taste buds will change their shape so that food even tastes better. It tastes sweeter, it tastes better. It intensifies. So when we go into this Interesting. Yeah. When you go into this stressed state,

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker 2:

All of your body's physiology is shifting and changing and altering to get you to try to eat as much, especially sugar and carbs.'cause that's quick energy, right? Yeah. You can sprint, you can run, which was great for. Back in the caveman days when you needed, needed, not what we're stressed out about quick energy driving, but now we're stressed and like sitting in front of the computer and it's making it worse. But

Speaker 3:

yeah,

Speaker 2:

so our physiology is designed to get us to eat for protection. And so if we try to restrict our food, which a lot of people typically do in that state, they're like, how do I react by cutting myself off from food? And if you take away food, which is one of our basic things that regulates our nervous system that makes us feel safe, you take that away, you further increase that stress response. Which is why there's, there's a saying that dieting is a gateway to an eating disorder.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Because you take away the food, you create the stress response in the nervous system, and then you lose the connection with being able to feel the sensation of being full and satisfied. And you're like in this animalistic, ravenous state for like. More of it to regulate your nervous system. And so, you know, diets and ozempic and these things, they don't get to that, which is that we're really trying to use food to regulate reregulate our nervous system. So the key is how do I reregulate one maybe in that moment, but also earlier in the day because there's probably, the body's probably been sending clues long before that moment of an intense craving that, that the nervous system is starting to get overloaded. Okay, it's too much, it's too much. And then we hit the capacity of the nervous system and then it becomes overwhelmed and then we need like sugar or something to help bring those stress hormones down to reregulate. Carbohydrates can actually bring down cortisol or stress hormone. And it starts to feel like, what's wrong with me? I have a sugar addiction. I just didn't tune in and listen earlier. My body was actually probably asking for something a lot earlier. Whether it's a low blood sugar drop, a stress and emotional response, you can kind of tune into the clues. Does it feel like low blood sugar or does it feel like a stress response? Yeah, because those are two different things. Low blood sugar. You need food earlier. You like

Speaker:

physiologically feel it, like you feel like the shake. I feel like lightheaded. I feel like if I don't do something, I'm gonna like pass out. And that's

Speaker 2:

like your body telling you we actually need nourishment. Mm. And we need nourishment before we get to that state.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

So look for the yellow like, like if you're in green, yellow, red, look for the little clues of yellow, of like, oh, I kind of feel a slight little bit of hunger, a little. Like I can feel it shifting. When you get to the red zone, your body's like in emergency. Now that's trigger for a binge because we haven't tuned in early enough. Now the body's like, I gotta save you. So how, what a beautiful design that the body is going to make sure that you're not ignored, that you're taken care of, and then you'll feel like when it's a stress response, you don't feel as much of that like lightheaded. It doesn't feel like, oh, I haven't had enough food. It feels more like my nervous system is overwhelmed. A lot of the things that we were talking about earlier about when the nervous system goes into a response and the neck tightens, the breathing gets shallow, everything, contracts, that's a sign that if I have cravings in that state or my body is reacting in that way, that's my nervous system telling me, Hey, we need something. Like we're really needing to be supported right now.

Speaker:

What do you say? Like, I love, I love that because it's. It's so true. And I don't think I've ever heard, I haven't heard anybody articulate it like that. And it's interesting to hear you articulate exactly what's happening, because I know that I've used those signals as if I'm craving like really like junk food and I'm in that state. I don't wanna eat anything else when I'm in that state, you know? And I use that as, oh, I'm dysregulated, but in the moment I'm going to eat this.'cause I don't want to eat anything else. Yeah. And I still need nourishment and, but one of the things that I find a lot with people with like a DHD is forgetting to eat. Mm. So if somebody is 80, how, how would you. What would you say to somebody like that? Right? Mm-hmm. Because it's such an easy thing to do. Yeah. Like as we're talking, I'm like, I know like today I was eating a little bit more spaced out and I was like, oh, dang it. But I have to like really intentionally like set it in or I forget

Speaker 2:

to eat. Yeah. Yeah. There's a couple of things you can do. Things that are like little reminders, you know, like it might actually take like planning and setting an alarm on your phone. Like this is lunchtime, it's in my calendar, I have an alarm that goes off. Um, but something that helped me a lot was I noticed that I was getting into the red zone. I was like in the warning stage a lot. And so what I started to do was practice just making it a practice to check in with myself as if I was my own child. And throughout the day, I'd be like, how we doing? Just checking in. And maybe I don't need anything. Maybe we're good. But I'm just noticing like, is my body shifting? Am I getting more hungry? And I'm just kind of like, I'm like checking in on my team.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And I'm like making that like a practice throughout the day to kind of check in, is my body shifting? Does it need anything? Um, checking in that way. Or you could also just like actually calendar it and set alarms, things like that.

Speaker:

Just kinda make it like everything's around it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Well, I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be that everything's around it. Not, sorry, not

Speaker:

everything's around. Like, like it's in your schedule. It's in your calendar. Yeah. Like you're booking around when you eat, it

Speaker 2:

won't, you won't forget it.

Speaker:

Yes, yes. You'll see it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. You'll either have an alarm or it won't get overbooked and forgotten about. It'll be intentional. Yeah. I noticed that, that, um, I'm much better about really caring for my body when I put. A lunch block into my calendar.

Speaker:

Oh, totally. Like it is funny'cause like Tuesdays and Fridays right now are my admin days, so it's always like, kind of scattered when I, when I eat. And um, and so I should actually probably put it in my calendar for those days too.'cause I've put them on the patient care days because when I didn't, I wasn't, I was eating like in between patients really fast and now I'm like, okay, I have a 45 minute break gonna go slow and eat. And it makes a big difference'cause like I would get cranky and tired and then like, just want to eat like crappy food in the evening. And, um, I think that's a really good suggestion. Mm-hmm. Because I think it's easy to kinda just be like, well I have a DHD so. Then that's just me. Like I just forget to eat and I'm like, and we can take control over it more as a fellow I-D-A-D-H or A-D-H-A-D-H-D, whatever. You get what I'm saying? We don't have to submit to just having these diagnoses and having them like rule us. Like it can make us susceptible to things, but I think we can kind of hone it back in, right? Mm-hmm. Like there's, I think there's a balance there as well of just not shaming ourselves when we fall into that old pattern, but also. What are we most likely to do? How can we address that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we are in such like, busy, scattered lives. Yeah. Um, but just little things. Like one of, one of my students, she loves sticky notes because she's like, I'm so bad with like taking supplements and doing all the things to like, care for my body, and I know it's important and I forget to drink water. And I like, I just forget, you know? And so she puts sticky notes on everything. It's like, Hey, don't forget your water. It's gonna make you feel amazing today. It's gonna make your heart pump better, your energy's gonna be better. And then she'll put it, she'll put her supplement bottles out and she'll put little positive notes and then little reminders everywhere. And it's just like all her environment is saturated with like, reminders, notes, inspiration,

Speaker:

you know? Well that's what one of the things they say when you have a DHD is, is have external reminders. Mm. Like when you have external reminders. Because your executive function like is, is limited. So it's like you have these external reminders. You don't have to think about anything else. Like you just, it's just there like the, the, the reminder's there. It's like you don't have to worry about it. Yeah. Um, and when I kind of shift a little bit into like, one of the things that you were saying before on like craving an emotional eating, um, stem from unhealed childhood wounds, would you say that kinda goes back to the chronically dysregulated nervous system or would you, are there other.

Speaker 2:

You know, it's really beautiful how our food can, our relationship with food can really show us like our history if we're willing to kind of look at like our past and our childhood. And like for, for example, this is, this is just one example. Let's say if growing up you didn't have enough food at home, or you had a lot of siblings that were all fighting over food, or your parents weren't there to like make you food a lot and you're doing it on your own. So there's some random fly. Do you see it? No,

Speaker:

I'm not just like waving at you. You're like, stop. No, there's a little like gnat. That's funny. I'm not having it. It took you a second sleepers. Yeah, I'll keep it in. Oh my

Speaker 2:

God, that's so funny. Um, so let's say if you were little. And you didn't have enough food at home or you and your siblings were fighting over food or your parents weren't around a lot to make you food. That's at that young age is when you're starting to create like beliefs and how you're starting to understand how does the world work. And so you might really believe like food is scarce and it might have been scarce. And that's the relationship that you have with food.

Speaker 3:

Mm. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And so in your mind and your psyche and your nervous system, it's like food is a scarce thing. So in order to cope with that, you develop a strategy to help you in life. And so your strategy might be, when I go places, I eat as quick as I can and I eat as much as I can.'cause I don't know when I'm gonna get more food again later.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And so that kind of becomes like imprinted into like, this is the relationship that food that I have with food, how it works. And if that gets repeated into adulthood. It just becomes a habit, a natural way of being. But then we start to see ourselves as, oh, I'm a person who has a portion control problem. I always have to overeat. I don't know why, but like I feel this deep inner desire to like always eat more than what I know that I should. And then as an adult, someone's like, Hey, you should watch your portions. Don't finish your plate. And you're like, what? Like there's not enough food. So I ha I have this internal desire to overeat. And so it can show you why you have struggled. And I'm like, a lot of kids were trained, you know, when they were little to eat until their plate is gone to eat their food. You can't leave the dinner table until your plate is empty. And so that's like one of your first signs of training. Don't listen to your fullness signals. Instead you eat until the food is gone. And if that gets repeated, you're constantly programmed. Don't listen to your body, listen to how much food is on your plate, and when it's empty, that's when you stop. And then as an adult, it's like, why do I feel like it's so hard to leave food on my plate? And

Speaker:

that's been deeply well,'cause we've been told, if you're wasting it and there's children in other countries that are like starving, I'm like, it's guilt. Yeah. Well it's also not like I'm gonna ship them mashed potatoes overnight. You know? Like there's not, there's the guilt with it too. Mm-hmm. And yeah, that's, and so then there probably, well what would you say? Like if somebody,'cause I, I remember my biggest stuff had started long. I always kind of, I don't remember ever having a healthy relationship with foods mm-hmm. Until recently. And I don't remember. Anything in particular? I just know that I played a lot of sports, so I was starving all the time. Yeah. But I remember people judging how much I ate, but I was like literally

Speaker 3:

mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Playing three sports a year, like year round. I was growing, like I was lifting weights and you eat more when that happens. And so like what about the people that maybe like that or have always kind of. Eight. Like now I'm listening to my body more. Mm-hmm. And I can be like, oh, okay. Well now, actually ever since chemo, like if I overeat, I get indigestion. So I like have to stop. Mm-hmm. So it's like been kind of like a nice,

Speaker 2:

yeah. Is an accountability there? Oh, I

Speaker:

don't have a choice. Interesting. Like, I cannot, yeah. It's done. And I can't drink alcohol either. It's like, nope. Wow. I can't. And so it's really interesting being like forced into it. See the gnats coming to you. Yeah. Um, I don't really know where I'm going with this question, but more of what are some, maybe some other, um, examples that you see or, well, if that brings up other,

Speaker 2:

yeah. I mean, so I think that like, as we're growing up, we're all, like, our bodies are going through changes. Mm-hmm. And I think that a lot of people don't understand that stress response. So when we try to like get healthier, we try to eat healthy. We're just given this very mental way of doing it like this very like. Uh, use your mind diet. So maybe as you were starting to grow up, trying to like then do what you're told, which is like follow, I don't know, when you started, at what age you started trying diets and things like that. I think I was like 11. Right? Okay. It was something

Speaker:

insane. Okay.

Speaker 2:

So think about being 11 years old. Yeah. And like you were born very in tune with your body, but then it was like somebody along the way told you No. Follow these rules. Yeah. And as soon as you start following rules, you pull all of your attention out of your body and up into your mind. And so then you lose that sensation of like hunger, fullness and you're living in like cravings and disconnection from those sensations. And so then when all of your attention is in your mind, it makes it very hard to build. A trusting relationship with your food and body. Mm. Because you're in that, you're like in that nervous system state and you're living in your mind.

Speaker:

Well, yeah. It's like how we live as a culture too. Right. You know, it makes sense why all of these diets and all this stuff is just always gonna be there until we can drop into our bodies. Exactly. So what would you recommend for maybe something, somebody's totally new to this, right? And maybe they don't understand what nervous system regulation is or dropping into your body. I like to say that because I've heard these terminologies in the past and I didn't know what they meant, and I never felt like I could get like a solid explanation. People just kept using them and we don't make sense to somebody that has no idea what that means.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And so I'd love to hear your explanation of how to drop into a body and regulate the nervous

Speaker 2:

system. Sure. So coming in, when I say dropping into your body or living in your body, it's all about where is your attention? Where is your awareness, your attention. And so I like to play around with moving around awareness. So let's say if like you typically, let's say if you go through this moment where you're like, you lose control of food. You, your attention is probably up here in your mind. Mm. And you're like, mm. You're thinking about the food and all your attention is up here. And as we move our attention down into our bodies, that's where we start feeling like hunger, fullness. We start like rebuilding trust and like slowing everything down. We also feel more pleasure from food when, when our awareness, our attention is down here in our bodies because pleasure is felt in our bodies, not in our mind. So we actually receive more satisfaction when our attention is down here in our body. And so if you've never done this before, you can kind of begin to practice. One of the most important keys is to use the breath. I think of the breath as like the bridge from up here to down here. So I feel like you just take a breath, you start to feel how your attention now moves a little bit into your chest a little bit more. Kind of like. Opens up a little more sensation here into the body. So the breath is one way to start like moving your attention down here, regulating the nervous system. Calm, bringing everything calm. And then the other thing is moving, where's your attention at? So a lot of people say like, oh, I'm numb to my body. That's okay. Like it's a practice. So if I said, you know, pay attention to your right toe, your big right toe and feel what is touching your big right toe, you probably can pick up that sensation of maybe your shoe, maybe even like your toenail. You can kind of start to feel mm-hmm. Different things on your big right toe. And a couple minutes ago you probably felt numb to your toe.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm

Speaker:

Mm. I love that example.

Speaker 2:

So in a couple, just within like, just with some intentionality, where is my attention going? I can move my attention to my different body parts. And now it's almost like I'm awakening the sensations. The more I practice bringing my attention from up here all the time and start bringing it down here and start getting curious, how is my body feeling? Does it need food? Is that my nervous system? Am I, am I feeling stressed? Is there an emotion? Like what am I feeling? What am I needing? Am I thirsty? Am I tired? You can feel the different sensations in your body as you start bringing your attention down into your body. So I do think it can be a little bit more challenging when you're like, while you're eating or when you're in a craving. So I like to see other times of the day as practice. So you could even do, you know, some people like to do meditations. I never did long meditations. I just did like five minutes. Where I'm intentionally practicing to move my attention first thing in the morning down into my body. What am I feeling? What sensations are going on in my body? And I'm redeveloping this relationship with my body so I can feel, what is it trying to communicate to me throughout the day?

Speaker:

Yeah. Does that make sense? No, it makes total sense. I love your explanation of it, because I think that we're so disconnected from our bodies. Mm-hmm. And, and I. I dissociate from my body even still like mm-hmm. Sometimes for 24 hours. Mm-hmm. And I'll be like, oh my God, I didn't check in with my body. Yeah. And I try not to have shame with it, but I say that because as for people listening, like as you practice this, like, it's like a, it's a practice. It is a, it is a meditative practice. And it's so common when you've been dissociated for so long.'cause that's how you're like your five lane highway is to dissociate from your body and to live in your head. Yeah. And the way I like to describe it is like then that eventually becomes, and over here living in your body is a little dirt road. And I heard this from a therapist once, and then you just keep redirecting. Yeah. And over time, that dirt road becomes a one lane road that's paved, then a two lane road, and then a three lane road. And then eventually that almost becomes your default. But there's still this old pathway. And I think that the more we practice things like you're saying. The more we can get to that, but then also having empathy for ourselves and, and knowing that, hey, like, you know, we skipped a meal today on accident. Okay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Well, part of what I think is so helpful with that too is that disassociation is protection. Mm-hmm. It can be protection and like when our attention is down in our bodies, there's, there's emotions in here. Sometimes there's great emotions and sometimes there's pain and stress and sadness, and sometimes we don't have the capacity for all those emotions. And so when we disassociate it's like, okay, it's like, it's just a little too much for me right now. And so I think part of rebuilding trust with yourself and your body is to let give yourself permission to be on those controls of like one day it's, maybe, it's like, you know what, being in my body is too much today. Mm-hmm. It's okay if I disassociate, I kind of need some protection. I need to check out today. I need, I need a minute. Yeah. I actually like the body's a little too much. And then as I feel a little comfortable and I can be a little curious with like, you know what, I have the capacity to be like, what am I feeling today? Even though this might be hard, it's uncomfortable. I can stay curious, I can see what I'm needing. And then other days it's like, you know what? I don't have the capacity. I, I actually don't wanna be in my body today or right now. We're in this moment. And I do think that that's a really important part of rebuilding trust is what is my capacity to move my attention into my body.

Speaker:

Well, I also think it can be really scary with people that have unprocessed trauma for sure. Yeah. And I think. I wish there was like a trauma 1 0 1 course and like teaching people how to like, drop into their bodies. Do you, do you have stuff that talks about dropping into the body?

Speaker 2:

Well, in my courses we do. Yeah. But we do it from, from that place of trust where Yeah. Everyone can feel like, where does it start? At what point does my nervous system feel like, Ooh, that's too much.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

I, I'm not in a place of curiosity. It feels overwhelming. Okay. So you know what? Instead of dropping into my body, I might sit here with my eyes open and breathe. Mm. And that feels safe. And all I wanna bring my awareness to today is like my elbow. And that's it. And that feels safe. And other people are like, okay, I have the capacity for this. And having the capacity doesn't mean that it always feels good. Sometimes you might have the capacity to really go inward and it's like, wow, I'm really struggling, but I don't feel overwhelmed. I can be curious, but as soon as I go into that my body is shifting into fight or flight, it's like, you know that that might be too much for me. I'm gonna breathe. I can eat my own place. Can you explain

Speaker:

it to it as if, like, what do you mean by just like for people to understand? Like when you're talking about capacity, can you explain what that would mean?

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Again, I like to go back to like just like some of the basics so, and it can be so easy and I do it too. Yes. So like when you say capacity, how do they know if they have capacity? Do you get what I'm saying?

Speaker 2:

Uhhuh. So yeah, it's being like checking in with yourself. And I think that when you feel curious about your experience is like kind of like the green light of like, we're doing good. Maybe I could feel more so let's say if we started off from like. The safest state might be, I'm just gonna sit here with you and we're gonna breathe.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And I'm gonna notice my breath. Okay. That feels like I, I can do that. I can handle that. And now I might like, bring my attention to like, my hands that are resting here. Okay. That, that feels pretty Okay. I can handle that. Like, I don't feel overwhelmed feeling that, feeling some, and somebody else might be like, Ooh, that sensation's too much. Like, I, I don't feel comfortable doing that.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And then maybe we go one layer deeper. Okay. What would it be like to close my eyes right now? If it's too much, it's like, whew. It feels, it feels overwhelming. It feels scary to close. It feels overwhelming for me. I feel stressed to close my eyes. That's

Speaker:

not having

Speaker 2:

capacity, that's not having capacity. It's overwhelming. Where I might close my eyes and say, wow, this is really uncomfortable. I wonder why it's so uncomfortable for me to be with myself right now without any distractions. This is really uncomfortable and I can feel the discomfort, but I can stay curious. And then I'm like, oh, wow, there's a feeling here today. Like, yeah, that's anxiety. I wonder what that is. It it feels like fear. Wow. And, and I'm like, I'm feeling, can I go deeper into what I'm experiencing and feeling today? It might be joy, it might be fear. But if at any moment I'm like, Ooh, I can't stay curious, it's bringing up an old memory and I need help, you know that maybe there's an old trauma there and I need support. Okay. I don't wanna pay attention to that feeling like that's too much for me. I actually might want someone's support and guidance.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that there's a balance, right? Because to challenging yourself to go in. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because if we don't, is it discomfort or is it capacity? Sure. Right. And so discomfort for me, like, and discomfort, I'll give an example for me is like, um, actually I was moving my, um, one of my cancer scars the other day.'cause I took all this additional fascia training and all of a sudden, whoosh, I was back to having cancer. And it was like my first. Experience of like going in like that fast. Wow. I, and I know that the body keeps a score. Like I know these things, I teach it, but to feel it's a whole nother animal. Oh, yeah. And I sat with it and I was like, can I keep moving this scar? And I kept moving it and I was like, uh, I want to crawl outta my skin right now. And I was like, no. And I walked away. All the emotions came up, but I was like, I'm gonna feel this. This is, this is healing, this is good. This is like old stuff coming up. But if I didn't know that, I would've been so scared.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker:

I'd be like, what is this? Oh my God, I'm never touching that again. And no, it was my body saying, oh, hey, we're still here. There's something unprocessed. Yeah. And so I, I think that if I would've just said no and walked away

Speaker 3:

mm-hmm.

Speaker:

I don't think I would've been able to have like a, like, just, I was like, I'm gonna cry tonight. I'm gonna feel it. I'm gonna journal because this is a wound. Right. And, but that's taken me time to kind of get to that point. And so like my, I moved that in, my button came out. Um, it's taken me time to kind of get to that point, but I think like there's a balance between like, if I kept pushing it and, and like moving through it and I wanted to crawl outta my skin, that was capacity for me. Mm-hmm. The discomfort was in the pain of it coming up, but. Knowing if I lean into it, there's healing on the other side. And there's just so much to learn when you're going through, like,'cause dropping in your body. I mean, psychotherapy I did a lot of, but I wasn't taught to drop in my body. Right. Yeah. It's like what you're describing Yeah. Is, is exactly that. And I bring up my, I always just bring up my experiences because I don't know, I just, I feel like it, maybe it will normalize it for other people. Mm-hmm. Or whatever it may be, but I. That was like the perfect example for me of capacity. Like I wanted to crawl on my skin. There was no like discomfort. It was, you have to like stop. Like it was just so overwhelming versus like, oh, that's uncomfortable. I'm gonna go in more. That's a little discomfort. Can I handle this? Can I breathe through this? It was a not, you can't breathe through this. This is a, let's take a minute.

Speaker 3:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Um, does that make sense? Totally. Yeah. And I think everybody is. On their own journey. Truly. And it's like there is no rush. Yeah. And there is no right or wrong. Yeah. Like you, there is no wrong, you know, when we move our awareness out of our bodies or into our minds or somewhere else, like sometimes we need to be in that protective state because it's just too much. And then when we feel ready and we can start getting curious, or maybe we do want somebody, you know, a professional who, like if you're hitting up, up against some really deep edgy stuff, that's like a lot of pain there. You might need somebody to support you through that process. And, and that's amazing. And if you can stay in a place of curiosity, like where you were like, this is uncomfortable, but this is healing. Like it's amazing. It a lot can ha a lot of healing can happen. Well

Speaker:

they're just tools. Like the more tools in your toolbox, right? Yeah. And the more we can educate people to understand this type of stuff exists, um, you know, like the typical. You're saying like the tracking of calories and stuff like that, it's just like, doesn't work, it's not sustainable and nobody sticks with it. Mm-hmm. You know, like maybe you do for six months and then you're like, binge and eat like a hundred

Speaker 2:

donuts. Yeah. And it's like, okay. The, the most powerful thing anybody could do is one, just learn some foundational things of health. Like how do I take care of my body? So when I do wanna care for my body, I at least am empowered with information. Mm-hmm. I know what it needs. And then I practice tuning in and listening to my body, understanding the difference between what does a craving feel like and my body is telling me it needs, and there's nothing wrong with getting food. While you're in that experience having a craving, but, but rebuilding like that trust with what is my body really needing and telling me how can I feel those sensations of being full after eating and trusting that. Mm-hmm. Um, and you'll have this strong partnership with your body as I'm listening to its signals. I know how to care for my body and we're really working in partnership with each other and that's what gets us out of those loops or those, those moments of loss of control and then re getting motivated and just going through that loop. It's what will get you out of it and, and you can still indulge, but from a place of connection rather than survival.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I

Speaker:

love the indulging'cause I like, I took a mindful eating, um, course, like it was like an hour thing and I'm sure you probably teach stuff similar but just. Like the other day I got my favorite. Have you ever had the Home slice subs, by the way? No. Home Slice has like these subs that are like the most incredible subs ever and I was just like craving one and like yesterday I was like, oh my gosh. I just sat there and I ate it and I was like, it was just like a Turkey sandwich. I was like, I just love how much Turkey is on here and the, and the texture of the bread and noticing. I was like, oh my gosh, the lettuce is like this fine lettuce that like. Almost is like as thin as like hairs and it's on there. And then there's like mayo and olive oil and vinegar. And it was just like, I was just like, I had no sound on, no TV on. I was just sitting there and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm just enjoying this. Like, indulging versus like, if I was like watching TV or like, you know, doing a million things and I'm like, ugh. To just indulge in. Just like, I was like, not feel guilty about it and just experience it. And was it taste like on your tongue? And the appreciation. Then I went down this whole spiral of like, how did they, why is this sub so special? Like it's just a Turkey and like it's just a Turkey sandwich. And then I appreciated the owners, like based on their, they've done a whole history of like bringing it from another part of the, I think it was like New York. And anyways, the point is that. It brought me a whole appreciation for Yeah. Something that is sad that can just seem so mundane.

Speaker 2:

Well it's funny because these things that are like food is a pleasurable experience. Yeah. And we've been told that like it's bad. Like they've been labeled as temptations. Like they will tempt you into like kidding, committing a sin. Like don't be tempted into like this sin and like food has like gotten this bad reputation that it should not like it's bad if it's enjoyable and pleasurable. So then as soon as we want to actually enjoy something pleasurable, it's like that's when we disassociate from it. It's like, this is wrong. I shouldn't be doing it. And so then we like eat really fast and numb out to the experience.'cause it's so bad and wrong that like it'll, if I disconnect from it, it'll make it go away. And then it never hits that really deeply like pleasurable spot, but like when you're so aware of it and give ourselves permission to like. I'm gonna fully enjoy this and receive it. Let me actually get like this amazing satisfaction and pleasure from it. And that's not a bad thing.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm. It's really cool when you can like truly enjoy your meal and just remove the shame from it. It

Speaker 2:

is, it's so special's the, the best

Speaker:

investment of my life.

Speaker 2:

It's a way to like, honor and cherish our bodies. Yeah. Through like, the pleasure of eating through. Yeah. Caring for our bodies. Like all of the things as like a way that we can show our bodies and ourselves like, I deserve this, I deserve to taste this. I deserve to treat myself like a queen. Like I'm, I'm, I matter, I'm special. I care about my body, like I care about. Stopping and receiving this pleasure from food instead of like working my way through a meal and like, multitasking. And, and I know it's, it's not always perfect for sure. Oh God. I mean, I still do it. I catch myself and I'm like, oh, whatever I do too.

Speaker:

And that's okay. You know? But I think it's important that I, I think a lot of times I, platforms and on social media, people wanna be deemed as gurus and like, I don't ever wanna be on a pedestal. Don't put me on a pedestal. Like I'll still, like, I wish. Yeah. You know, like I was on a road trip the other day. I stopped at a gas station to get, like, QT has like gas station. They have like really good sandwiches there too. I don't know why I don't usually eat that many sandwiches, but like, for some reason I'm lately, um, that's funny. But I was like. There's nowhere else to stop. Like I am in the middle of nowhere. And it was just, okay. So I just ate it while I was driving and I was like, okay, well this also isn't mindful eating, but I've gotta eat. Yeah. So whatever.

Speaker 2:

Yep. I mean, that's the thing is, oh gosh, my sister said this to me one time that she heard from somebody else. It's like, like our mind can create the idea of perfection. Mm-hmm. But it doesn't leave any room for our humanness. Mm. We love that we can visualize this perfect way of living and being, but there's like no room for our humanness. We're human. We're human, and we're living and we're like doing, we're doing the freaking best that we can.

Speaker:

Well, yeah, it's, it's funny'cause um, I was talking to, who was I talking to? I was, I think I was talking to a client and they were like in Peru or somewhere where it was very. Spiritual, and it was like this whole experience. And, um, one of the drivers was taking'em to this like event, like this, I don't know where they, I forget where they were going, but it was like this spiritual, like holistic kind of space. And he had like a diet Coke from um, McDonald's in there. And she was like, she felt so safe. She was like, oh, this person's real, real, like, and I loved that'cause it stuck with me because it's re like, you know, and I had a friend the other day. She was like, she, she said she had a diet coke. I was like, oh, uh, and she brought it up. She goes, I had a cl I told a client I have a diet Coke once a month or something. And I told a client that I had that and she was floored. She was like, I can't believe you. This is what you do. She goes, don't put me on a pedestal. I didn't ask to be on a pedestal, you know? No kidding. And so I just always wanna emphasize like, at least for me, like I am not. Trying to,'cause somebody might see me out eating like a, like I love pizza, you know? Mm-hmm. But most of my meals are nutrient dense. They're like chickens or salmons and like, you know, like, I'm gonna go home and have some chicken and beets and maybe some feta cheese, and then probably some dark chocolate. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and then in the morning I'm gonna probably have overnight oats with like some blueberries and stuff like that. But I was just craving that sandwich, you know? Yeah. And it just, there's just, I just, I love this conversation'cause I think it can help a lot of people. So. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here, Uhhuh. So how can people find you, um, and give them your info? I can also, I'll put it in the show notes too, but Sure.

Speaker 2:

I share things, uh, from time to time on Instagram, Gina dot wrf. And then, um, if you wanna keep learning more about this topic, I have a free training. It's called Reclaiming Your Power With Food, and that's on the Mastering Mindfulness Institute.

Speaker:

Mastering Mindfulness Institute. Mm-hmm. Okay. Perfect. Yeah. Cool. Well, thank you so much. Yeah, thanks.

Thank you so much for listening to my podcast. It would be a huge help if you could subscribe and rate the podcast. It helps us reach more people and make a bigger impact. I would also love it if you could join my email list, which is LinkedIn, the caption for podcast updates, upcoming offers and events. You can also find me on TikTok, YouTube and Instagram at Dr. Mary pt. Thanks again.