Episode 56: When Beauty Hurts: Hidden Cost of Conventional Beauty with Gabrielle Mullinix

I sit with Gabrielle Mullinix, a holistic hairstylist and head spa practitioner, to talk about the unspoken realities of the beauty industry, toxic work environments, and how chronic exposure to chemicals can affect your health.  Gabrielle was also my hairstylist who helped me navigate my hair loss during chemotherapy. I am truly so thankful for her and how much her guidance meant to me at that time.

About Gabrielle:

Gabrielle Mullinix is a trailblazing scalp therapist, Holistic HEAD SPA Educator, and founder of GEMPIRE HEAD SPA, a soulful brand dismantling the toxic norms of the beauty industry from the inside out. With over 15 years of experience behind the chair, Gabrielle transformed her own health collapse into a mission-driven movement, guiding both clients and professionals toward a more sustainable, spiritual, and science-backed approach to scalp and nervous system care.

Based in Austin, Texas, Gabrielle blends ancient wisdom, nervous system regulation, and non-toxic tools to create deeply nourishing HEAD SPA experiences. Her online education platform empowers sensitive stylists, estheticians, and wellness practitioners with the techniques, rituals, and marketing tools to build peaceful, profitable careers that don’t compromise their health.

Known for her intuitive guidance, honest insights, and a sense of humor that brings levity to the real stuff, because healing doesn’t have to feel so serious. Gabrielle is a natural leader who blends education with embodiment. She moves with intention, follows her curiosity, and holds deep respect for the sacred rituals that reconnect us to our inner wisdom. She believes that when we care for the crown, we awaken something sacred - our connection to self, spirit, and purpose.

What You’ll Learn:

• How chronic exposure to chemicals in beauty and healthcare settings can contribute to illness
• The real story behind hair loss, cancer, and the overpriced wig industry that often isnt quality despite cancer patients paying thousands of dollars
• What greenwashing is and why “vegan” or “clean” labels aren’t always safe
• Why the nervous system needs time to reset after leaving toxic environments
• How scalp health connects to fascia, hormones, blood flow, and even your nervous system
• Daily things you can do to support healthy hair growth without losing your mind or your money
• Why slowing down and reconnecting with your body is non-negotiable if you want to truly heal

Timestamp:

00:00 Introduction and Welcoming Gabrielle

00:07 Journey of Leaving Toxic Work Environments

00:50 How We Met: A Hair Salon Story

01:51 Health Concerns in the Hair Industry

04:06 Speaking Out About Industry Toxins

06:10 Personal Health and Environmental Factors

13:06 Beauty Standards and Self-Perception

25:36 Navigating the Wig Industry During Cancer

32:50 Navigating Depression in a Salon Environment

33:37 The Reality of Greenwashing in Beauty Products

34:21 The High-Stress Salon Culture

38:07 The Importance of Nervous System Reset

39:22 Transitioning to a Holistic Haircare Approach

48:34 The Significance of Scalp Health

51:32 Practical Tips for Scalp Care

01:04:28 Resources for Scalp and Hair Health

You can learn more about Gabrielle at https://www.gempirehairco.com

You can follow her instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/gempire_hhc/

If you are a health or movement professional and want to stay in touch with future episodes, webinars, courses, events and more. Subscribe to my email list here

I’ll see you in a week!

Transcript

0:26

hello everyone. Welcome back to TMI talk with Dr. Mary. I'm your host, Dr. Mary. In this episode I brought in Gabrielle Linux and she is a trailblazing scalp therapist, holistic head spat educator and founder of Gen Empire Head Spa in Austin, Texas. We'll dive a little bit more into her in just a minute, but I wanted to back up and explain a little bit about. Gabrielle and i's history. She had been my hairdresser for several years and I had found out that I was diagnosed with cancer and she helped me navigate losing my hair, getting a wig, going through my first haircuts and understanding my new hair again, and it was such a pivotal part of both of our careers because I woke up to wanting to be more holistic in my path and my journey of health. And it was an eyeopening experience for her as well, and she was already on this path of holistic hair care, but it really drived that direction for her, and she's very special and near and dear to my heart because losing your hair during cancer treatment is one of the most uncomfortable things that a lot of people don't really talk about that process. So much of the focus is on. It's on keeping somebody alive, which is, yes, that's important, but there's also that piece. And so diving in more to about Gabrielle. So she owns Jump Empire Head Spa as soulful brand, dismantling the toxic norms of the beauty industry from the inside out. With over 15 years of experience behind the chair, Gabrielle transformed her own health collapse in a mission. Driven movement guiding both clients and professionals towards a sustainable, spiritual and science-backed approach to scalp and nervous system care. Based in Austin, Texas, Gabrielle blends ancient wisdom, nervous system regulation, and non-toxic tools to create a deep, nourishing head spa experience. Her online education platform empowers sensitive stylists, estheticians, and wellness practitioners with the techniques and rituals and marketing tools to build peaceful, profitable careers that don't compromise their health. And so in this episode, what you'll learn are the overall arching theme is the hidden cost of conventional beauty and everything that we do to get to that and how it affects our bodies. So what we'll dive into is how chronic exposure to chemicals and beauty and healthcare settings can actually contribute to illness. The real story behind cancer hair loss and how the overpriced wig industry doesn't actually mean quality, and how many people that are going through cancer treatment are actually being scammed by this and paying thousands of dollars. How greenwashing is evident in our hair products and in the beauty industry, calling it vegan or clean, when it doesn't always mean that it's safe. Why ner the nervous system needs time to reset after leaving toxic environments? This can include chemicals or even just a toxic work environment in general. How scalp health connects to fascia, blood flow, and even your nervous system Daily things that you can do to support healthy hair growth by focusing on your scalp and why slowing down and reconnecting with your body is a non-negotiable if you wanna heal. So without further ado, we will jump into the episode and I hope you enjoy it. Welcome back to TMI talk with Dr. Mary where we dive into non-traditional forms of health that were once labeled as taboo or dismissed as Woo. I'm your host, Dr. Mary. I'm an orthopedic and pelvic floor physical therapist who helps health. Movement and rehab professionals integrate whole body healing by blending the nervous system into traditional biomechanics to maximize patient outcomes. I use a non-traditional approach that has helped thousands of people address the deeper roots of health that often get overlooked in conventional western training. And now we are gonna be starting our next episode. welcome to the podcast, Gabrielle. Thank you. So excited you're here. Yes, me too. It's a long time coming. Yes. I am excited to dive into all of the things today that you and I have been on this mutual journey of mm-hmm. Branching out on our own and leaving kind of toxic work environments and then going more this holistic approach all while being on our own spiritual journeys. Yes. And seeing what aligns with both of us. Mm-hmm. And, and I'd love to dive into all that with you. I'm into it. Yeah. I know. I'm very excited to be here. And I just think the, uh, the alignment of our paths in general, as they've gone like this, a lot of the times we've been able to just like, kind of come back together and realize that we are really like this. You know what I mean? In a lot of ways. So, yeah. Totally. Well, you wanna explain to everybody how we know each other? Yeah. So you were a beautiful client of mine. Um, when I was in a hair salon. Um, I believe you came in on a Groupon. It was like a Groupon, I think it was like a Yelp special actually. So we started our journey there. Um, I have been now a hairstylist of 15 years, but when we met probably 10 year, uh, I don't know, it's been about 10 years that we've known each other about in 2015. About. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, um, you know, I just moved to Austin and, you know, was building up my clientele again. And I really feel like a lot of those of you that have been with me since the beginning has been like, again, very much so synchronistic and in alignment for just the paths that we've walked in our own, just like healing journeys. Um, but yeah, I got to service your beautiful hair, uh, do all kinds of color experiences and, um. You know, I think that was probably five years in that salon environment and then ultimately transitioned into my own solo space because of the industry starting to kind of take me out as far as, um, my health goes. So I started seeing things happen in the industry that we're sort of, um. Not resonating with my body, you know? And, um, I think that's where, you know, you walked your path as well. And it was very similar to the timeline that I was walking my path, but silently, uh, because I couldn't necessarily speak to toxins in the hair environment. There was not a lot of people talking about these things at the time. Um, it was really scary to say these things that, you know, my health could be reflective of what I'm using and what I'm using on people and how I'm affecting people or how I'm affecting myself on a daily basis. So I remember there was just a really big shift in, you know, having chronic migraines and not being able to breathe in that space and all of those things that just started coming to a head that I was like, I really need to explore something else and I need to be able to, um. One, a space that feels more healing. And, um, nobody was really talking about the holistic side of the hair industry. No. Yet, no. Um, nobody would've ever heard of that. I really had to dig for these things myself. Um, and that was in 2019. So it was really me just starting to like, explore options. Um, because it became really scary for me that, you know, with my past history of being, you know, my, like dad's side of things, my mom's side of things, there's a lot of cancer that is underlying on both sides. And for me to start exploring all of the ingredients in the things that I was using and, um, being in an environment that housed multiple keratins a day, which I found out to be, uh, a huge carcinogen because they have formaldehyde. Um, and connecting some of my health path to that, specifically that particular service, I was like. Oh my God. You know what I mean? And it became really, really illuminating. But also I was kind of silently suffering at the time. Well, I think it's hard when you're coming out in an industry that nobody's talking about this. Mm-hmm. I mean, it was 2019. Now you're seeing more stuff rise up, especially post COVID o and all the things and people like yourself starting to get the courage to speak out.'cause it can be scary. Mm-hmm. I mean, me talking about spirituality as a physical therapist is mainly Western trained. Mm-hmm. It has taken a lot of nervous system work for me to be able to handle criticism, but I am willing to take it. Mm-hmm. Because I, I feel so passionately about when, when our souls are off path, a lot of health issues can happen and not. Blaming the health issues on the person, but how can we look at these chronic health issues as messages? Yeah. Messages. Like, Hey, am I in the wrong environment? Totally. What in my immediate environment, in my current ecosystem is causing this sickness? Is it environment? Is it, is it diet? I mean, most of the time I feel like we, we put a lot on diet and I still think there's a lot in diet too. Um, of a lot. But if we're not addressing the constant exposure that we have, like the chemicals, I think about this with nail salons too. Mm-hmm. I, I know, I see people wearing masks now. Yes. To help with that. I'm excited that they're doing that. But you're getting a lot of people like yourself, the trailblazers in these different, um. In these different professions that have just kind of left things silent and just pretend like nothing's happening. Mm-hmm. But the reality is, is there's a lot of chemicals in these products. And I remember even just back in 2018 talking about how, yeah, I don't put certain sunscreen on my body. Mm-hmm. Because I don't trust these bigger companies. Mm-hmm. Because they're giving Europe different products and they're giving us Yes. Because it's cheaper. And it's like you're poisoning the US people, the people in the United States, and. I remember like getting shit for that. Yeah. And now it's like, okay, well now it's more accepted. Mm-hmm. But it was like, oh, okay. You're exaggerating. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, am I, because I'm dealing with chronic fatigue for 20 years. Mm-hmm. Little did I know it was multiple things that were going on, but. A heightened nervous system my whole life. Mm-hmm. I mean, I can eat healthy all damn day. Mm-hmm. But it's like when I was diagnosed with cancer, I was eating gluten-free. Yeah. I was having turmeric smoothies, I was exercising, but I was in a relationship that was not good. I was, I. And it wasn't a good fit. And then like, I was having a lot of issues with my family at the time and processing a lot of Catholic guilt Yes. And internalizing a lot of stuff, not knowing how to, how my energy is being affected too. Mm-hmm. Like I was over giving my energy and I didn't realize that that's just sacred power. That is totally, um, just absorbing everybody else's energy and going outta my way to help people that I barely even knew. Which is not a bad thing to do, but it's like, I was always doing that. Oh yeah. And I remember when I was married at the time, like my partner was like, why do you give your energy to everybody else and not, you know, to, to me or like, and it just made me think like, oh, okay. Mm-hmm. You know, and then, you know, I reflect now and there's just so many different aspects about it that Yeah. It was overgiving and not giving to the people that were closest to me. Oh, totally. Um, yeah. I think even in the industry, like you speaking to that bridge of 2020 and the illuminations that were coming out of that, there was a lot of scary stuff happening. But at the same time too, I just remember being in that space. I just transitioned into my new studio and the conversation of, if you're gonna go back to work, this is how it has to look. And you know, we have basically a full hazmat suit on. Right? And then when I thought about it, I was like, isn't this how we should be dressed anyways? If we're dealing with the chemicals we are? Oh, like I just got chills. Ultimately, yeah, ultimately we are really the only service providers that aren't protected in that way with the level of exposure that we have to ammonia, to benzene, to all these carcinogens that are just floating around as vapors in the air. You know what I mean? Just uh, our aerosols, all of that. You know what I mean? So I just remember like thinking, okay, we need to go back housed in this hazmat suit. Why have I not been doing that the entire time then, you know,'cause it wasn't normalized. Right. Right. And I can give you a specific example of that too. There was a time when I was doing, um, one of my coworkers was doing a keratin. This was after I'd already kind of found out like, is keratin the straightening stuff? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So ultimately it helps smooth the hair, all those things. When you hit any sort of heat to that particular product, the vapors become formaldehyde. So it's gas in the air and you have to have a very particular system in order to suck that stuff out. Right. We had a small salon, but I do not believe that we had that system. If I was being affected the way that I was anyways, I had worked it out with the, um, owners of the salon that I was not on. I was not gonna be doing those particular processes anymore. However, I was still gonna be in the environment and so I asked, you know, would it be okay while somebody else is literally in a gas mask giving these experiences? Can I. Wear a mask myself, because I already know how I feel. Right? Like, I already know that my throat starts closing up. I start getting this like tingling down the back of my throat, my, um, neck where everything just starts getting like really almost like I can't hear. You know what I mean? And then it would become just immediately a migraine, like all of a sudden, right? And as I asked for that permission, they were like, no, because we don't want anybody to think anything's wrong. I'm like, somebody's already wearing a gas mask. Is the, is the client wearing a mask? Mask? The, the client receiving the experience is, is wearing a mask, the service provider is in a gas mask and anybody else, why are we doing this? I know. And then by the time those services were done, we were in a literal cloud. Like, it's like we had to open the doors, all of these things. And I just was like, this is so terrible. But like, again, I'm, I'm, it's so normalized. Yeah. That like you just, when you're, you know. There's like little things too that I would even think about when I was at corporate. Mm-hmm. As I was like, we were touching cide mm-hmm. With without gloves. Mm-hmm. And cide into your bloodstream. Yeah. I'd get made fun of'cause I'd wear like gloves or I was like, no, like, let's get more natural, like EPA approved. Mm-hmm. Products, we don't need to be exposing ourselves to this. And it was, oh, you're just exaggerating. I'm like, no, we're literally spraying like cide, inhaling it. Every 30 minutes as we're cleaning off the table. It's not just this one time exposure. Right. It's like the microdosing repeated exposure. And I just, I was like, no, I'm not spraying that anymore. I'm not inhaling that. Mm-hmm. And it's not necessary, like that's necessary. If blood is on a surface, we weren't totally, nobody's having blood on the surface. Mm-hmm. Like we use those wipes. I don't use the spray. We use the wipes after somebody has a pelvic floor assessment. Totally. Because sometimes yeah, the vagina juices get on the table. Yeah. It's real. Or like pee or something like that. They'll get on the pad, but you still wanna walk. Walk, you know. Or lube or something like that. Yeah. You wanna make sure that it's cleaned up, but we need to be discerning about the things that we expose ourselves to, even like the lotions that we use. Yep. As physical therapists, like, you know, we use just like some cocoa butter. Mm-hmm. But some of these other ones, it's the repeated exposure from a clinician or practitioner, um, totally standpoint. Yeah. I literally say it feels like we're always microdosing. Yeah. And at that point I felt like I was macro dosing chemicals. Totally. You know what I mean? Because of the way that it was like I couldn't, I physically couldn't go in there and not be affected in some way, whether it was like, you know, just the hair color that was going on. Again, there's ammonia in those products, and yes, there's other products that have an ammonia derivative or whatever the case may be, but those are not, they're not tested as in long term yet. You know what I mean? We're in the midst of using them right now, so I'm like interested to see. In the future? Was that the same? You know what I mean? Was our ammonia exposure and this more holistic color, did they end up kind of balancing the scales and ended up being the same'cause it was just another chemical or another thing, right. Or compound that we ended up using. But again, I, I speak to just like our skin is our biggest organ, we have to be so careful about what it is. If you are not touching it, it is still in your environment that it can literally absorb into your skin. Which is why I talk so heavy on vapors because as soon as you're blow drying, guess what? You've got products that you've put in the hair. You've got chemicals that are still sitting on the hair. If they received any sort of chemical service, we are now releasing those into the air as vapors and inhaling them because what is a hairstylist doing most of the time talking over the blow dryer. So they are eating all of that, you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's just one of those things where I was like, yeah, no wonder my throat felt the way that it did. Of course. You know what I mean? Well, it makes me think too, it's like in western medicine when people are coming in and chronically sick, it's like we're not talking, like if you're bleaching your hair regularly mm-hmm. Like, how are you feeling after you're bleaching? Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know? And, and that's something I never put, I was dyeing my hair and then you question yourself, you're like, why am I dyeing my hair? Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And like I was dyeing my hair ever since I was 15. And then subconsciously I was like, why am I dyeing it? Mm-hmm. What about it? And it was, it was so silly, but it was. I was trying to look like, and it never worked.'cause I never fit into the, the conventional beauty category. Right. Which was like the hot blonde, big boob, super skinny waist parents. But you know, like this, this imper, like this impossible body. Mm-hmm. That, you know, we were all comparing ourselves to like the Victoria's Secret models, which we now all of that's been exposed. Yeah. Right. And you know, they weren't feeling well during those experiences and their bodies like weren't optimal. And you know, you hear all this like corruption and it's like you really sit back and think about it and it's people prying on our insecurities. Mm-hmm. The beauty industry just does that. Mm-hmm. And I see. Der uh, dermatology practices here mm-hmm. In Austin that have billboards mm-hmm. With the conventional beauty. Mm-hmm. Bullshit. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, why are we, it's 2025 still. Still. Yeah. Yeah. And we're still posting that stuff. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wow. That mm-hmm. That's interesting. Mm-hmm. And so it's funny'cause when you really pull it back, it's like, well, that's the best way to keep women small. Yeah. Get them so obsessed with the way that they look mm-hmm. That they don't question anything because they're too busy wrapped up in looking skinny, you know, looking a certain way mm-hmm. Dyeing their hair, like all these things and hey, if people wanna dye their hair Yeah. And they've weighed all their pros and cons. Yeah. And it's something they enjoy. Awesome. Yeah. Right. But it's making this, it's like this discernment of, and discernment is just such a key in this world today. Mm-hmm. Is sitting with this and being like, is this something that. I'm doing for myself. Mm-hmm. Do I really like this? Or is there a deeper rooted thing? Mm-hmm. You know,'cause I always, I still find it crazy that we, we try to hire our grays too. Mm-hmm. And who knows, I might do that as mine gets more gray. Mm-hmm. Um, but I'm like, I fully wanna embrace it with platinum, but I might change my mind. I might still wanna dye my hair, but it's just sad to me because as women we're just constantly like being told subconsciously that we're not enough, we're not doing enough. And, you know, all of the ads for Botox and plastic surgery mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's all to women. I mean, if we're from a binary sense, it's really all to women. Mm-hmm. And it's like, I feel like once you see it, you can't unsee it anymore. Totally. Um, and I just look back to so much of my childhood and just feeling like it was enough.'cause I didn't have big enough boobs. I didn't look a certain way. Mm-hmm. It was just like all this. Mm-hmm. Stuff. And then we just stay small and then we expose ourselves to chemicals and, oh, yeah. I mean,'cause the same thing too. I mean, that even triggers something, uh, as one of my clients who is a, I would say a pretty big deal, you know what I mean? Like she's, she runs multiple, we'll say like waxing studios. Um, and I don't necessarily wanna put a name to that, but I remember coming in after I was going through my skin journey because again, like through my skin, I have struggled. For years because I was constantly fighting acne. Mm-hmm. Scarring, all of this stuff, and inflammation just in general. I felt it in my body, but mostly through my face. Right. And a lot of times it was like, okay, well what am I eating? What is this? What is that? Well, I remember going through this process, I had just started going to an aesthetician for the very first time. She was explaining that certain things that I might be eating, like dairy could be very inflammatory and all of that. And so I was like, okay, I'll cut that back. That immediately made a huge change for me, which was wonderful. But I went through the path of getting chemical peels done because I wanted to minimize my scarring. I wanted to be able to, you know, get in there and just like soothe the skin over time. Right. And this particular client came in and, you know, I felt the need because I wasn't wearing makeup that day, you know? And I was just healing from this fricking chemical peel that Yes. Makes you peel. I was already not feeling great, you know what I mean? But I was like, you know what, we're gonna own it. This is my skin. Mm-hmm. You know? And so I told this client, I was like, Hey, I feel like I just need to give you a heads up coming off of a chemical peel this, that or the other. Um, you know, I'm trying to heal these things. She was like, you know what I was gonna ask'cause you don't look very professional today. And I was like, oh, why do you say that? And she goes, if you were one of my girls working for me, I would've sent you home. Where's your full face of makeup? You look, you, you don't look put together. And I was like, and I had to just kind of like,'cause again, that is one of my deepest insecurities, right. And I'm just outwardly sharing to say, Hey, this is what I'm doing for myself. I was actually excited to go on the process. But to be met with something like that, you don't look the part now, you know what I mean? To, for you to be in your natural skin, you don't look the part. Yeah. And I had to like, I was with her for three hours after that. And I had to like hold it and be like, you know what? It's okay. Like sticks and stones, you know, but it was just one of the sticks and stones they made. Break my bones. I'll take a stick right now. I know. I was like, this is, it just made me reflect so much when I got home because I had to sit with myself and be like, it's okay. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I love expressing myself through makeup. Yeah. I always have, ever since I was a kid, but I wanted to start bridging this, this new relationship where with myself, where I could say, you know what, it would be really nice if I could go out and not have to wear a full face of makeup and feel really good about it. I feel bad for anybody that works for her. I know, I know. And I mean, that's toxic. That's a toxic work environment. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, again, coming from a woman too, that was, you know, I just was like, I was like, damn, like that was it. It was gutting. But at the same time too, like. To be able to speak to it, to be able to have also had other clients in my chair, other hairstylists that have been in a similar situation before. Um, I was just like, this is an experience that I'm having, but I don't necessarily have to let it define something about me. I don't have to immediately go back and be like, well, my skin's still healing, but let me throw a full face of makeup on really quick. Like, I sat with it and was just like, that is her thing. Like, that doesn't have to define how I can, that's also not even like your ideal client either. Yeah, right. It's like fine right night, you know, passing in the night. Mm-hmm. Like, that's another thing too, is even energetically just thinking about if, if you have a client that is like that mm-hmm. It's like, ooh, okay, well that's just, that's not a personal thing. That's just, imagine the way that I look at it when it's people like that, I'm just like, I can't imagine what it'd be like to live in that brain. Mm-hmm. Where I'm just constantly thinking I need to put a full face of makeup on Yeah. To show up. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that's sad. Mm-hmm. That's so sad. Yeah. It was a, a very, and just say that to another woman, you know? Mm-hmm. And it's just like, ugh. Yeah. And at the time it was like, you know, I was probably 26 mm-hmm. At the time, you know what I mean? Still coming from a very, like, how do I arrive in this space? I'm two years new to Austin. I'm dealing with humidity. It's hot. I'm like glistening all the time. You know what I mean? So I'm like, I'm like, how do we make up here? You know what I mean? Coming from Austin or, uh, from Maryland, it was just like, you don't really, you can't really wear makeup here, by the way. Your skin looks great. Thanks. We've been working on it for like 10 years, so shout out to all my Estes. Because Estes, yeah. Literally it's, um, it's been a journey. But again, like had I not had that like pivotal also moment of friction because it came up against myself where I was like, you know what, I'm really. I could go hide back in this shell again. You know what I mean? And that wouldn't feel good. Or I could embrace what she said and and take it and just say, okay. But I know I don't wanna treat people that way. If I was ever, I mean, in her point of position, if I ever had people under me, it would be like, express yourself in the way that feels really good for you. Yeah. Because that's healthy. Yeah. Literally. And it's like, it's funny though'cause I think people like that will be like, we can't find good staff. It's like, hmm mm-hmm. It's a staff issue. Yeah. Are you sure? And that was a revolving door, you know? Yeah. That was one of those things where I was like, we can't figure out why. No, I get it. Yeah. I love it when like, gosh, the amount of like bosses I've had over the years or like seeing other businesses that just wanna just bitch about staff, and I'm like. Are you not looking? If, if you have a staff issue, it's you. Yeah. Either you're hiring or hiring wrong, or you're a bad leader. Mm-hmm. And you, either way you need to figure out mm-hmm. And stop. But people mm-hmm. Will just keep pushing the button and be like, I can't look inward at all. So it's everybody else's fault. Right. And it's funny'cause it's just like, it's really not that hard. Treat people well. Mm-hmm. And get the people who believe in the same things, your mission and your core values. Mm-hmm. And, and yeah. I mean, I, that's abuse to mm-hmm. Tell people that they have to look a certain way and like. And send them home. Mm-hmm. If they don't look up to your standards. Oh yeah. I mean, but that came from even the very beginning of me getting into the hair industry too. Like I remember I'm, I'm sure that's all over the beauty industry. Yes. Yes. Because it's like if you, it's not just her. If you aren't looking like you're coming out of some sort of, um, Instagram or Pinterest ad, or at the Time Magazine ad, you know what I mean? And it wasn't that you were polished and had uncomfortable shoes on. There were literal rules in some of the places that I worked that it was like, if you were not in a healed shoe, you are going home. Ew. And we know, Ew. Just how terrible that is on our body. Well, you're already standing all day on like concrete 12 hours services. 12, too. 12. No, I think that it's, it's, it's crazy. I mean these, these industries and I mean, it's. It's similar to like in healthcare too. Like if you, like, I probably don't even know if I could have a nose ring if I worked at corporate. I'm not really sure. Right. Um, we would, people would have to hide their tattoos and their arms. Mm-hmm. And it's like, that's a form of self-expression. Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, it's just, it's so, it's, it's the reason we need more people going on their own mm-hmm. Or joining teams mm-hmm. That are supportive. Mm-hmm. Because ultimately what we're seeing is like the old world dying right now, all that bullshit. Mm-hmm. Like all of, like, you have to look a certain way, dress a certain way, and all this stuff. Yes. There's a, there's a piece of looking professional. Right. Yeah. Totally. I'm not gonna come in in pajamas. Right. But yeah, I mean, if I wanna wear like baggy jeans mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like a tee, like a shirt. Mm-hmm. That looks like, you know, something like this. Yeah. I mean. It's just, there's a, there's a balance. Yeah. I think. Yeah. And, um, but I think you're seeing so many people shift Yeah. In the way that they show up. Like, I, there was a study done, I'm blanking on who it was through, but basically the top reason people left their work was due to culture issues. Mm-hmm. And I have stayed at places much longer than I should have. Yeah. Because of the culture mm-hmm. In that clinic, not the whole business. Right. None of the bi whole businesses that I've ever worked for, I've ever been fond of. Right. There's toxicity in corporate everywhere. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. In the p in the ones that I've been involved with. I haven't seen that. And it's, it's just the more that we start questioning and evolving mm-hmm. And we don't just blindly just take people say like, oh, I just, I work for corporate so I can get a paycheck. I'm like. Yeah. But you can get fired tomorrow and then what are you gonna do? You don't have a backup. Right. You don't have a backup. And then it's a trade off.'cause it's like your, your energy is now entitled to somebody that literally doesn't care about you. Yeah. Like corporate will let you go in a heartbeat and nobody cares because it's just, it is what it is. Mm-hmm. Because it can just say, oh, it's business. Mm-hmm. But, um, absolutely. Well let's dive into our story a little bit because I think, you know, when did I go, I went out on my own, what? 2018 and I think you were 2019, right? 2020. Mm-hmm. 2020. It was technically. The midst of the pandemic. Oh. It was like just shy. Oh, that's right. That's right. I remember going your place and we were like all masked up. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. And so you were such a foundational part of my journey as well. And when I, for people listening, I had lost my hair and I had this long beautiful, I mean, you always made my hair look so good. I mean, I got compliments on it all the time. And it was just, it was such, I just identified so much with my hair. And then when cancer hit, like you don't realize how much you identify with your hair until it's gone. Mm-hmm. And when it was gone, I mean, I lost like 80% of it and then just shaved it. Right. I was like, I can't, yeah. Hair was everywhere. I was like, I tried to hang on to it. Mm-hmm. And um, I think like the hardest thing was just like. Well, what do I do? Like now that I'm not getting my hair done mm-hmm. And I can't style my hair and all this stuff. And then you helped me, you dyed my wig, you wouldn't let me pay for it. And I was like, let me, you know, and I was just navigating so much and I just still, and you gave me my first haircut for free, I think after mm-hmm. Cancer. And it's just like, um, yeah. Like it meant a lot. And so, um, yeah. And so you wanna kinda dive into, yeah. I have witnessed so many people going through that journey and, um, you weren't the first person that I had worked with in that way. Um. There was a number of people that had sort of started that path that I was, you know, invited to either shave their head for them or, you know, maybe we closed down the salon early so that we could have like an intimate moment. And it was just me and that person. Um, when it came to your experience, this was the first time I had ever done any sort of like wig work like that. Mm-hmm. But I was very confident I could do it'cause I've worked with extensions forever and coloring hair and all of it. And um, you know, as I had had these previous experiences with women that are already going through the toughest fight of their life, it is a like switch of everything. You find this information out and one of the first things that comes up is like, well, based off what I have, am I gonna lose my hair? Yep. That's the first thing you think of. And with that experience, there is an industry like the wig industry or the extensions at whatever it is. That I watched number, like numerous clients of mine coming in, telling me that they got this diagnosis. They were then referred to this company to get a wig or get a this or get a that. And then what did they end up paying? Thousands, thousands, thousands and thousands of dollars for wigs that were no better than going to Party city, that were synthetic, that were, you couldn't even manage them with any kind of heat. So they would come in and I was like, these are women and I don't even wanna just say what this is. This affects everyone. Right? But the people primarily that I was working with was women. So to see them not only have now these medical expenses, but one of the first things to come up is I just wanna be able to still connect a little bit with the identity that I had. Is there a way to do that? Yes. Let me give you this referral, but then let me blow your wallet up. You know what I mean? I just, I watched this experience so many times and you know. Trying to work with synthetic wigs and, and all of these different things. I just was like, this is. I was like, wherever you're getting your referral, right. We talked about like where you were getting your wigs from and things like that. Because I'd already walked the path. I was like, I at least want to like go through what this synthetic blend is, real hair, raw hair, whatever it is, so that we can make sure that you get something that we can work with. Mm-hmm. Because, and it doesn't have to be thousands of dollars. So that is just information for anybody that doesn't know it, is that you do not have to spend thousands of dollars in order to get your hands on a wig that could be synthetic and you know, um. We'll say like raw hair blend to be able to work with, I think that's important for clinicians and, you know, movement professionals too, to hear, because cancer's a big thing that we, I mean mm-hmm. You can't not know somebody or have a patient that's been affected or currently been affected in healthcare. Yeah. With it and navigating the wig industry, you helped me so much. And then me, like looking at this and looking at that, I mean, I think my wig was like$700. Mm-hmm. And then my insurance. So insurance will sometimes pay for it. Yeah. Right. Um, mine did, it just took forever to get the check. It took like three months or something insane. But it was, yeah. I didn't wanna, I wanted a wig because I didn't want my patients feeling bad for me. Right. Like, if I was in tech or something, I probably would've just said whatever. Mm-hmm. And just wore a hat all the time. Mm-hmm. But there's a different energy that happens, like when people find out you have cancer. Yeah. Um. They almost feel bad that you're working. Yeah. And so I only let certain clients know if it affected their treatment. Like I remember after one chemo, I woke up and I like could not get outta bed. I was so dizzy. Mm-hmm. And I canceled a patient like kind of last minute, and that's not like me. And I had to tell her and she was like, she was a cancer survivor. Mm-hmm. And she was like, oh my god, I'm so, I had no idea. Yeah. And so there's also like navigating that when you're in these industries where it's you're caring for other people and you don't want them energetically worrying about you. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, you're navigating this thing and you don't necessarily wanna do it silently, but it's also not their thing to take on. Right. Totally. It's kind of like holding that space, trying to keep that space for yourself. Mm-hmm. But then additionally, like, yeah, being any sort of client facing. Business. It is so challenging. I mean, even like, it's not the same, but just some of the things that were coming up for me, even just being in the industry that I was with, or the exposure that I was with the migraines. Mm-hmm. Like I didn't really, I knew the source, but I didn't wanna speak to it always. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And so I just think, you know, kind of dialing it back into having that support as you're going through that experience is so important. And when you shared that information with me, it was just one of those things where like, again, I was already in the midst of my own personal pivot, right? Kind of silently doing my own thing behind the scenes. How do I shift my environment right now? Because, you know, there's stimulation all around too. Like think about the environment as a whole in the salon. Now if you are down to go to a club and have like a bumping environment and you're like, alright, I'm going to this salon go off, right? Mm-hmm. But for someone that is navigating a diagnosis, for someone that is just going through a depressive experience, I'm someone that has, you know, dealt with depression myself, and there were times where I was just like, I physically can't work in this environment right now. There are blow dryers, there's music, there's chemicals, there's so much conversation going on. My nervous system was constantly like this, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And so as you're walking that path, I'm also looking at like, okay, these are the things that are coming up for me. You know, this, this is the, um. Sort of reactions that I'm having to these new products that are vegan. You know what I mean? And I was like, I can't, with the vegan products, I know. I'm like, that doesn't mean it's healthy. Or they'll say like, gluten free or something. Right. I'm like, right, right. Okay. Yeah. Like is it really like, I see what it's called, green washing, right? Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Greenwashing for people listening, it's basically when these companies brand stuff. Mm-hmm. So it looks clean. Mm-hmm. But it's actually not. Yeah. You know, I just, I was actually looking at some of my, um, body washes I got from Whole Foods. It has red dye in it. Yeah. Yeah. But it says 92% clean. I'm like, why'd you need red diet? Like, it's like, I mean, you can go through this whole rabbit hole. I mean, it's taken me years to evolve to this point, so I don't want people stressing out about mm-hmm. This. Mm-hmm. Unless you're like really affected by it. But I think it's important if we're dealing with clients that are chronically sick. Mm-hmm. Like what environments are they in? What are they breathing in? Like, this is not what we, we don't talk about this stuff in healthcare. Yeah. Yep. And I mean, it is, it's like again, when you're in a salon environment in general, it is just stimulation on at all times. Well, all senses are big. Oh yeah. I mean, maybe not taste, but Yeah. I mean if have wine tasting the hairspray, I mean, honestly, yeah. There's a lot that, do you remember after when I'd be under the hair dryer thing, you'd always get the best massages. I'm like, of the hand, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm here just for the hand massages. Uh, right. And so, so much of that, like, again, even just with like being in the hair industry and watching, like over the last 15 years, things evolve for me. My favorite thing in general, when I was doing anything in school, or, you know, starting in my first salon, I loved the aspect of like, literally caring for the person. Like, I was like, I wanna do an extra head massage. I wanna do the things, I wanna, whatever. And then you get into your first salon and they, they tell you like, you know, go, go, go, go, go. You're trying to produce money for this place, right? If you're not moving fast enough, right. Well, I got into all kinds of education when I was first in the industry and I loved that. You know, I'm an information person. I wanna do the best that I can. I don't think. I don't think cosmetology teaches you much other than PA to pass the state boards. You know what I mean? I definitely recommend to anybody that's going that path to find a really well-suited educational experience outside of it, but being wrapped up in that environment of go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. You're constantly moving and you're constantly producing. There's no, there's no settling down in those moments. Mm-hmm. There was no time for me to be like, okay, well, but I want, alright, Susan's already outta the chair. Okay, well I wanna try and slow this moment down for her for a second. I wanna do the head massage. Sorry, it's taking too long. Get her in the chair. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's wild to me that so many of those aspects will have been literally stripped and lost. And if you talk to anyone now, I mean they'll still tell you, oh, my favorite part of going to the hairdresser a lot of the times is to get like the head massage. I love, I love when they rub my head, oh this girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well it's also like, it's funny'cause. From like a business standpoint, I can understand why people are like money. Money, right? Mm-hmm. But I'm also like, you're, you're only use, you're using that as your only currency. Yeah. So let's put like, that's what they would do in like the PT world mm-hmm. Is like, let's just pump all these patients onto a new grad schedule that that new grad burns out two years in. Mm-hmm. And then they leave. Mm-hmm. And so then think about all of that revenue loss because that person left. Yeah. So they're not even looking at it. If you wanted to look at it from just like a capitalistic standpoint. Mm-hmm. Like you're actually doing harm. Mm-hmm. Because that person is going to leave, they cannot physically sustain it. They will either leave or they will get sick. And then at that point, you're gonna have to make up for all of the people that won't come back because that person's gone.'cause that's going to happen. Think about all the time you're retraining somebody else. Totally. So that's just, that's not even from an energetic level, that's just pure, like running a business. Mm-hmm. Right. And so how do you feel good if you're p. Practitioners can't sit for a minute and then do what they enjoy. Yeah. If you feel that way and, and you know, it's like, I think that's funny'cause it's almost like, okay well then raise the rate like 30 extra bucks so you don't have to run around with your head cut off. Yeah. Like that's what I see is like, okay, well raise your rates a little bit. Mm-hmm. Or maybe figure out a way that people aren't just constantly on the go. And that's what's like in the PT world, I mean I would treat anywhere from 50 to 80 patients a week. Yeah. For seven years. Yeah. And even now, like I'm substantially less, I treat like maybe 10 to 15 people a week. Mm-hmm. Well, like our team is growing, so they're growing their practices more than mine'cause I'm running the practice. But even that I feel this kind of like, oh my God, I'm not doing enough. Right? Mm-hmm. But I'm like, well I'm, you know, I do my podcast, I am speaking at a menopause event tonight I am meeting other practitioners that also feel aligned and like, I think the important thing is. If people do break out of these places or when they do, recognizing that there is a nervous system reset and you have to retrain your nervous system.'cause if you don't do that, you're gonna do the same shit. Mm-hmm. That caused you leave in the first place. I love it. Like people joke like, oh, work, work somebody else. Work 40 hours a week, work for yourself. Work 24 hours a day. Yeah. I don't think that's funny. Yeah. I don't think that's funny.'cause it's basically just like you di the inner work hasn't been done mm-hmm. To process undoing and un stripping all of those old beliefs. Yeah. And that takes time to kind of sit in, do breath work, slow down. Oh yeah. Check in with your body. But if we don't do that, you're, we just then perpetuate. What causes to burn out at the previous place in the first place? Absolute. So we're actually not getting to the root. Yeah. And then if our nervous system's offset, we don't provide a healing environment for our clients. Oh, totally. Yeah. I mean, just in you speaking to that, like even the way that I run my experiences now, which, you know, I've slowed way down in the sense of the actual experience itself. I've completely Well explain people what you do probably. Yeah. So I went from being in, you know, I say I'm a, I'm a reco, I'm a recovering hustler because literally hustler, we're huling out here in these streets as a hairstylist, right? I think the Austin streets. Yeah, Austin streets. Um, I think that there's a really. Interesting connection between COVID when I started my business, and then how I was able to operate after that. Because I started three weeks before the pandemic actually hit. I had no idea that this was happening in the world, and I'm glad I had my blinders on, you know what I mean? Yeah. There's a good chance that I may not have gone into this industry for myself or you know, gone into business for myself if I had known what was going on in the world. So anyways, as I, you know, had those first three weeks of clients, again, I was operating exactly as I was because number one, what am I trying to do? Most of my clients were like, hell yeah, I'm coming with you. What do you mean? Like, can you set me up? Same time, say day, like, what's going on? And I'm like, yep. The whole thing with that is like, again, that perpetuates that same cycle that I was already living in, and at that point I was servicing like six to eight people a day. Mm. That's easily, especially for color services, 10 to 12 hours, you know what I mean? With a few sprinkled haircuts in there. And you know, on my max days was 12 people. Imagine how long that, you know, it's like those days in general. So I already knew going into my own space, I was like, I gotta cut this down a little bit. I don't know how, but that's where this COVID blessing came in, right? Because three weeks I worked exactly the same way that I did prior. And additionally, during that time, I also like to say I was learning a new language because I went completely shifted everything on a on, its on its head and said, I'm gonna bring in completely new products. I'm gonna go the more holistic route. I'm not gonna bring in any redkin, any pureology, any of the stuff that was breaking me out because why? You know what I mean? And I communicated that with my guests. I was like, look, we're gonna be in a period of question mark. You know what I mean? Like when I do your color, I'm gonna need the feedback as to like, was this okay? How was the coverage? All of the things. But during that time to learn a new language. As somebody sitting in your chair like to look at these boxes and be like, yep, this looks about right. You know what I mean? And to try and say like, okay, well we're just gonna see what happens. It's an experiment, you know? Mm-hmm. And that was stressful too, you know, to to, to even be by myself. I'm not running anything by anybody, but it was a level of trust that I knew what I was doing. You know? I was able to learn those things, but then coming back from those nine weeks off, I got to sit, I got to learn about scalp care. I got to learn about all these things that have been like really like kind of sprinkling little, it's those little whispers. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things where like, anytime I was doing color and somebody had like flaky scalp, irritated scalp, red scalp, whatever, I'd be like, Hey, what's going on? We're using a detox shampoo, what's happening, you know what I mean? Because like science side of me loves that. Yeah. Loves scalp education. So essentially I was able to learn the foundation of all of that scalp education through the product line that I had invested in, which was beautiful. During the pandemic, they were giving a lot of free education.'cause everybody was just like, chronically online, right? So I was like, no, let's go ahead. So I was learning a lot from different countries, which was incredible. But then that like, you know, sparkle whisper of like, oh, this is what I wanna do. I was also like, I'm gonna have to figure out how to hold this space and what I was doing with color haircut, highlighting all of that. And then also try and work in scalp care when we're gonna come back from the pandemic. And we're not even gonna know how to hold space. Like, we're not even gonna know how to be together, you know, like, and I'm gonna be suited up in something that I've never worked in before. And I run hot baby. You know what I mean? So I literally was like, okay, let's just see what happens. And what it did is it allowed me to space out my day. So I'd have a client, I'd have a minimum of 30 minutes in between each client so that I could go through the proper sanitation protocols, do the things that I needed to do. Because again, even at the time, the conversation online, at least in our industry, was like, you may not be able to use your blow dryers because if, if somebody has COVID, you're masked up, you've got your, like, shield on all the things, but you're blowing around, you know, they were coming at hairdressers so hard during COVID. Yeah, yeah. So it was like, oh, well if you're using a blow dryer during, you know, this, uh, you know, devastating time of COVID, then you know, you shouldn't even have your license at this point. And it's like, well, what are we to do? You know what, we're just trying our best, you know? So I ultimately, once I got used to this schedule of like having a client, having this break, number one, I mean. We don't even talk about the exacerbated eating disorders that happen being a hairstylist, because you go into a business that allows you no breaks, no water, no bathroom, no full meals. Literally, it's like that in PT too. Yeah, it's like that in healthcare. Yes. So it's one of those things where I was like, hold on. So all of a sudden, me having this space, yes, I was detoxing my space and all of that, but at the same time too, I was like, hold on. I got a second to like eat my food. I got a second to like go to the bathroom. I gotta, and then all these, like it started clicking in, right? Which then has now progressed me to this place of, you know, I loved doing hair color and I deeply enjoyed the artistic side of it. However, three years into me using those holistic products, I started feeling very similar symptoms to what I was experiencing when I left Redkin and the salon space. So that was devastating for me because I. Love connecting with my clients in that way. That meant someone like you who is still continuing to get their hair color touched up, you know, grays, blended, whatever the case may be. I had to say, now I have to completely shift and invite you to see someone else. No, I've had, I mean, it was it for me, it was almost like at perfect timing because I was like, why am I doing this? Yeah. You know? Yeah. And, and I could see you struggling. You'd be like, I can still do it. Yeah. I was like, eh, don't worry. Like, honestly, I don't even want to do it anyway. Yeah. Like, why am I even doing? Yeah. It's so funny how energetically we've been on these, like similar mm-hmm. Paths mm-hmm. With it. Yeah. But I, and, and even just seeing what you're, like, you're about to go into mm-hmm. With, with the head spa. Mm-hmm. Okay, keep going. Yeah, so I mean, ultimately with that, like, again, it feels like a, a devastating loss when you have to release these clients that have been through it with you. Like at that point it had been, it's great seven, eight years of me being able to sit with these people, laugh with these, they, I call you all my family. You know what I mean? Because I went into business for myself and you all showed up for me. And that was just like in a time where the world was just a huge ass question mark that was so supportive and so healing for me. And then also just like a wild ride, you know? But you always had this like, thing about you that you're just like, like you like knew what you were doing and everything was like gonna work out. Mm-hmm. I think that's just like the undertone of number one. I, I will say a lot of that foundation that I found in those first couple years of going into the industry that was like, you know, the education I got there, I will always say that I'm so grateful for, even though it took me out as like a 19 to 21-year-old person, it was one of those things where I was working that hard. I was being witnessed by people that were platform artists that taught other stylists, um, at big, huge events. And I just was like, you know, it was a blessing to have that work and that that education the way that I did. And I also understand now, looking back in a lot of ways, how. I would do things differently if I was put into that position for a young person. You know what I mean? Because again, you're setting up the expectation that like, you're gonna hustle, you're gonna do this, you know, we're gonna continue to watch you as you continue to fall. We're gonna, you know, help support you, but we're also gonna put you back in your place. You know what I mean? Because we want the best for you. But it is a rigid experience, you know? So when I came here to Austin and like people wanted to like look at you in the face,'cause again, Maryland, I'm close to, you know, it's like going to New York City, right? It's one of those things where I'm like, I'm close enough to Baltimore that it's like, no, we ain't hugging each other. We ain't looking at each other in the eye like, I love you from afar, but happy to do your service. See you later, right? Yeah. Even though there's like this beautiful can Syrian energy in there with me coming to Austin was a huge culture shock. Yeah. Because I was watching people like. Slow things down, even though we're a melting pot of all kinds of different people. It was a completely different environment going into a salon and seeing my coworkers like hug their clients goodbye. I was like, oh, is that your husband? She's like, no, it's my client. You know what I mean? I was like, oh, interesting. Is that your child? Yeah. Right. Oh. Um, got it. So it's like this, this like new experience kind of coming into this like level of care. Yeah. You know? Um, but yeah. But dive into your experience from the head spot industry.'cause you've really been a pioneer in that. And I think that it's good for people to hear and understand how scalp and the fascia around the scalp and how that affects health. Yeah. Um, and so if you wanna kind of dive in a little bit to that because Yeah, absolutely. We don't look at the scalp much as practitioners. I mean, I look, we look at it, we're starting to look at it more, but it's still like if you look at the fascia components, how the scalp like fascia connects all the way down. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. To even the feet. Yes. And so explain a little bit about like some things that. You know, just a little bit about scalp health. Yeah. So as I transitioned into scalp health, the biggest and nerdiest part of me is the fact that I get to look at your scalp under microscope. And with that it's being able to, you know, I never say diagnose, you're just looking at what the current environment of the scalp is. Um, so being able to assess like is it dandruff, is it dry scalp? Is it, you know, over oily or production of oils on your scalp? Um, have we been taught proper ways of shampooing our hair? And this is where I will come in and say that shampooing and connecting with our scalp in general is the best foundational experience we can have, because none of us were ever properly taught these things. No, we see our hair, but we don't see our scalp. Whether we are going through the process of, you know, regrowing our hair, cutting our hair, whatever the case, it's always been about the hair, but it's never been about like, where has the hair come from? Right. Totally. No. When, yeah, when I think about, you know, being able to see these things under the microscope, that's so cool. And that's so like illuminating. But the first thing I'll tell people is you are not, you're gonna do yourself a disservice if you're not connecting with your scalp on a daily basis. Right? And especially for someone that's going through any sort of hair depletion that could be from a diagnosis, that could be from auto you, an autoimmune, that could be anything. And so I tell people connecting with your scalp, because you may think like, oh, but I'm losing my hair. I'm, I'm, I'm afraid that I'm gonna pull more out If you are not activating blood flow and getting that oxygen to the scalp to really support those capillaries to help rebuild those hair strands. We're gonna fall flat. And it's just not, it's the ability to be able to like replenish that environment on a daily basis that helps catapult you into like hair growth and a healthy environment. It's wild because like when, when did you do my hair? Like three weeks ago? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, my hair was falling out. Like I kept, like I, you know, I've gone to the point where I wash every other day or so. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, but every time I'd wash it would just start like coming out. Like, I was like, oh my gosh. Like that's weird. Mm-hmm. Like, there's a lot of clumps and then I, you know, immediately when you lose hair, people are like, oh my God, it's autoimmune, or this, or this or this. Yeah. And I think it's super important too because I'm in perimenopause. Mm-hmm. Um, anytime there's hair loss, it, it is a little triggering.'cause it reminds me of chemo. Totally. Totally. Um, but I have not had that since our treatment. Mm-hmm. And. And I think from a practitioner standpoint, I think it's super great to just like tell our clients like, okay, well is the, is the scalp like, are you massaging your scalp? Mm-hmm. Are like, what are some things, when you say like, connecting with your scalp mm-hmm. What does that mean? Yeah. So I really like to try and support a ritual at home that feels doable for you. Right. Because not everybody's gonna have what I do, which is almost two hours of scout massage a day.'cause I'm serious. You know what I mean? Like, there is now education out there that is supportive of our epigenetics genes, all of that. That quite literally, if you are massaging your scalp on a daily basis for up to two hours a day, then yes, that is going to absolutely break down this or turn off and on this, um, epigenetic coating, right? That we each have to say like, oh, we get to produce more hair, but we have to have that blood flow. We have to have those things. Right. So, um. Sorry, I forgot your question. Oh, just so massaging the scalp. Yes. I mean, I'm gonna tell you, I don't massage my scalp no. Two hours a day. No, and that's, yeah, so that's where I'll say like just in general. Creating a ritual that feels easy for you? Yeah. When I tell people in general, because we're not just, again, we're not connecting with our scalp on a daily basis. Oh, I have this, we've never talked, like literally it's never talked about. Yeah, I've talked about this for myself and I've done this for myself and I've gone through these rituals and I've been like, okay, we have to start with something before we just blast off into, you know, the most effective ways. Right? So I typically tell people at the end of the night, whether it is a silicone, little scrubby brush that you have, right? Keeping that baby clean if you're touching it with your scalp. A lot of people are using that in the shower. I always say, rip that baby outta the shower. Keep it outta the shower and like use it as your scalp tool for your massage. Because a lot of times, again, the pressure on that, that you can get it invigorates a little bit more blood flow, sometimes even more than our fingers can. Um, so using a tool can be really helpful, but it could be for up to like, you know, maybe you're doing it for two minutes, starting out. Maybe you're just like, it's something. Or even as they wash their hair, like what was the thing you said? You said yes. To kind of get in. Mm-hmm. Like once you. When you're shampooing kind of part it, scrub it. Yes. And then you're getting like the different layers of it too. So you're not just like washing your hair, you're like scrubbing your scalp in lines. Yes, yes, exactly. So you know, for the foundation of actually washing your hair, you know, so many of us Yes, have been washing our hair because we put our products on our head and we're like moving it around the hair. But I'm like, is that, is that suds? Is that emulsification actually happening at the scalp? Right. Because someone will come in and I'll look at their scalp under their microscope and they'll say They washed yesterday. And there will be still so much stuff that's just hanging out, hanging out, whether that's like buildup, you know, debris, whatever, dead skin cells, you know what I mean? And a lot of times it's because you've got thick hair. You know what I mean? Oh my God. So much hair. It's one of those things where like when somebody has thick hair even too, it's parting it down the middle, really opening that hair up, allowing it to get waterlogged, like super dense with water.'cause again, when we get in the shower, we are thinking about everything else. Except, except being in the shower. We are like, oh, what do I have to do outside of the shower when I get out of here? Right. This is where we slow down the ritual to really be able to just like, spend that moment of self-care for yourself. Do something more intentionally with your scalp that'll help promote more blood flow, hair growth, all of it. But then also you're setting yourself up because if you are cleaning it properly, a lot of times that, you know, people that are washing every single day, it's because a lot of times they're just not cleaning properly. You know? Well, what, what, explain why, like,'cause I, you were saying all this stuff for scalp health. Mm-hmm. And I go, okay, okay, but what's like the, the real rea like, give me like why should I care about it? That's kind of what I said. You were like, well, basically. It helps with hair loss. Yeah. Yep. And so if we have clients with perimenopause or hormone changes or things like that mm-hmm. And that's a big concern that they're having. Yeah. Even just getting them to start connecting, like with their scalp. Mm-hmm. Massaging it and understanding. But why, like,'cause when you did mine, we saw like the debris at the root. Mm-hmm. Um, why is it that, like why does that affect, um, hair growth? Hair loss? Like,'cause it's already there. Mm-hmm. And there's just clumps around it. Mm-hmm. And it's just kind of hanging out at the root. Why does that, why does cleaning that out change hair loss? Yeah. So ultimately, we've already talked about blood flow. Cool. Yeah. That's really supportive. But when you have a. Scalp environment that is either full of what can be even our water source, right? Our water source is not clean and pure. Here in Austin we've got chemicals, minerals, deposits, prescriptions, all kinds of stuff in our water, right? And then you get to a place where that is kind of harboring on the scalp.'cause a lot of us air dry. Mm-hmm. So I always tell people, if you can just bring that blow dryer in and those first 10 minutes just to blast that water source out, that will help with like releasing a film that can also start to suffocate the scalp. Right. I always say this is a humid environment up here. You get out of the shower, it's a humid environment. What is that? A breeding ground for bacteria. A lot of us are sleeping with our hair wet. Right. So when that stuff lays right and then you have it is like yawning. That's my dog. She's my sweet angel. Um, when you have that area that's already kind of, you know, being impacted by just a water source, right? It's like getting moldy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeast, fungal infections, all of that can happen. I'm like scratching my, I'm like literally yeast in here. Do I have a yeast infection on my scalp? No, we just looked. You're good. Like, no, it's just my vagina. Yeah. So ultimately when you come into, you know, contact with that water source, you're blow drying that out. You're helping support that environment. Yeah. But when those oils come in, and this is what was happening for you personally, is your oils were. Naturally coming out of the hair follicle. And I always say a lot of times those hair, the oil wants to go up the hair strand and it wants to nourish and replenish the scalp. But if that film is present the way that it typically is, then those oils can't penetrate that film and it starts building around the hair base when those oils, that's why my hair felt really dry. Yeah. Well it also felt just a little bit built up and we had those little like flaky that you could see, right? Yeah. So it was oil that had dried down. So you didn't have dry scalp, you didn't have dandruff'cause it hadn't, you know, progressed to a fungal infection. Yeah. It quite literally had just been old oils that you weren't getting to. Right. And so keeping a clear environment helps support hair growth because when those oils come up and then they harbor around the hair base and it dries down, that can not only impact the actual, like, quickness that the hair grows. Right. Because it's creating like a speed bump. You know what I mean? So that hair's trying to grow, but that like waxiness of your oils have already built, it's an gro hair kind of thing. It's, yeah. And that's how we end up with things like folliculitis of the scalp and all of that, because again, it's like, it's just not being cleaned properly. So when I look at like the best scenario for most people, right? I mean, yes I service most people here in Austin, but I've traveled all over the place and seen, you know, scalps elsewhere. And a lot of us, again, it's just the foundation of being able to clean your scalp at a very like foundational level, getting to your actual scalp rather than cleaning just your hair. Um, and oils help with that too. So a lot of times people will be like, well I use this shampoo, I use detox shampoo all the time. I'm trying to do this, I'm trying to do that. And you know, they think they have all the right tools and typically they have all the right things. Yeah. It's just how we are using them. Um, so when I explain the basic science of our scalp health in general. Natural scalp oils that we can use to replenish and keep a rebalanced and hydrated environment. It's going to be that we're using the scalp oils, putting that on our scalp, massaging our scalp because like attracts like your natural oils up here that are kind of hanging out, that are older that we can't see that you're like, oh yeah, if I itch my scalp, I can kind of feel that like waxiness on my fingers. If you're using a scalp oil, yeah, yeah. You're literally getting in there and allowing that stuff to kind of melt down and then you get in the shower and you're able to wash that out a little bit more effectively. But that's where I'll tell people to, um, follow up with a double cleansing, because when you use oil again, water. An oil has never mixed, you know what I mean? So when you get in the shower and you're using something that emulsifies, you just have to be more intentional about how you're washing, which is why I was talking to you about splitting your hair down the middle. Really emulsifying the product in your hand, applying it with your palm rather than your fingers.'cause this is such a small little surface area. Oh, I thought. But that's how I would get in there and scrub it off. Yeah. So well, so you're saying like the whole Yeah. So if you were to Exactly. Now that's not necessarily for the scrubbing process, that's just like applying your product, right? So if you're massaging that and you're getting it to a place of lather, right? This area is bigger than this area. Yeah. Right? So you're just like spark parting your hair and then you're placing your palm kind of down that parting so it gets to the root, right? Yeah. And or the scalp. And then you can get in there with your fingers and start moving things around. Mm-hmm. But I always say add more. Water before adding more product so that that way you can actually see that like emulsification happening. But when you're working with oils, know that that first shampoo is gonna be really, really important to just at least try and move that stuff out of there to clear the path. And then that second shampoo will actually like, feel like you lathered and you're like, okay, cool. Now I'm Gucci and I feel really nice and clean. Um, but a clean environment is always going to help support hair growth so much more than if you were to think, you know, I mean, think about a garden, right? We're like planting these beautiful seeds and we're like, okay, cool. I'm gonna create this fabulous nutrient rich soil. And then all of a sudden you come out there and you're like, nevermind, I'm gonna put pesticides AKA dry shampoo. You know what I mean? I'm gonna, you know, layer it with this. I use dry shampoo though. Yeah. And you can, it's just a matter of knowing, knowing how Mine's more of the natural stuff though. I don't So like a powder? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So powder dry shampoo always superior to an aerosol dry shampoo just because, um, people out there, if you're using an aerosol. Dry shampoo. The first thing I want you to run and look at is if it has butane.'cause butane is a known carcinogen and it's the number one ingredient in a dry shampoo aerosol. And it's typically the first ingredient. And we know the potency of when it is the first ingredient. That can be really, really, um, yeah, what we were talking about earlier. It could be really, it's disruptive to our health. Well, it's like a balance.'cause it's like, I think when people are first going on this journey mm-hmm. Like I threw out everything and then I was like, I can't do that. And just ease into it. First work on nervous system. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, and then just starting being aware of like your body and, and the signals that that's coming from it. Mm-hmm. Um, and then slowly evolving, but I think it's important that we're bringing awareness to it so that when people are ready to make the change Oh yeah. Because maybe they're noticing it in their health, then they have that resources. So basically a lot of it is. Massaging the scalp regularly, like when you're washing your hair mm-hmm. Get in between mm-hmm. Get to the scalp, fold your hair, go along that line. Um, scalp oils. Mm-hmm. And, um, blow drying your hair after. So it's not just like mildewing, yeasty environment. Yeah. And I just tell people with the blow dryer, like again, we've been taught for the last 15 to 20 years that heat is bad, don't use heat. All of those things. And what I wanna say to you, because a lot of people will be like, oh. Homework. No.'cause we all have our own relationship with the blow dryer and it's not always super fun, you know? So I always say if you can get in there for like, you know, five to seven minutes and just blast dry the scalp, that is gonna be so supportive. You don't have to do your whole head, you know what I mean? Well, yeah. You don't have to go through your whole entire, you know, yeah. Scalp to ends, but as, as long as you can get in there and just release your scalp of the moisture, that will be so important and so supportive. I've started doing that a second. So just like folding it and then just getting to the scalp. It also is better'cause when you sleep, I can like visualize now, like after you said that I was like, I'm like visualizing just like this. Like what other part of us would we just let hang out Being moist with product. Like we don't do that. Right. I know, I know. I know. It's'cause we can't see it. Well I also kind of think that about like the vagina too. Yeah. Like we wear like tight pants Yes. All day. Yeah. And just like sitting in that. Yeah. Like. Like, I'm thi happy that things are moving now where we're not wearing like these tight clothes all the time. Yeah, absolutely. I'm Oh, I bet we can breathe. Yeah, I know vaginas are happy everywhere. I know. But we just need good materials for them too, you know? I know. That's a whole nother thing. We could talk about that another time. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I feel like we could talk for hours. Oh, no, we could. We literally could. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say, I'll just like plug my resources so that, that way Yeah. If anybody out there, how can they find you? Yes. So, um, essentially, yes, I'm here in Austin, Texas. I offer these really beautiful, um, heads spa experiences. I like to kind of call it this balance of education and zen time. Um, but if you are not local and you know, you are just looking to support your scalp from home and you're like, she was talking a lot about foundation and this, that, and the other, but you don't know where to start. Um, it is quite literally a guide that I have already created in micro films that walks you through, you know. How to prep your scalp before you get in the shower. How to scalp oil, why scalp oiling is important, who it's important for, how to water log, how to detox your hair, what detox shampoo to choose. If you're kind of in that like, shift of trying to figure out, you know, um, I, I wanna explore the nont talk and or low tox route, but I don't know where to go. This is for you, for those resources. Because again, I was just seeing such a hole when I would send people home after these beautiful experiences and then I had to think about myself as a consumer because I go and have my skin done and I have a lot of questions after that. And so I was like, how can I support people from home as a follow-up or somebody that's just curious about building a better ritual for themselves in general? So. That will go through all of those things. The blow drying is in there, the importance of all of that. So a lot of what we already spoke to is in an online resource. It's called How to un Funk Your Scalp so that that way you can feel really confident at home. And what's your website that they can find out? My website is gem empire hair com. You forgot for a sec. Yeah.'cause I was like, is it my email? Hold on. What is my email? And then your empire Instagram Gen Empire. Yeah. Jpi Head Spa. Sweet. Well, thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you for sharing this beautiful angel with me, this lovely, lovely time. She's great for the nervous system. Yeah. We could have one monthly, we could talk about so many things. Oh my gosh. I feel like we just cracked the surface. I know. But I'm excited that we talked about the scalp stuff at the end because I think people can relate. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I love it. Yay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to my podcast. It would be a huge help if you could subscribe and rate the podcast. It helps us reach more people and make a bigger impact. I would also love it if you could join my email list, which is LinkedIn, the caption for podcast updates, upcoming offers and events. You can also find me on TikTok, YouTube and Instagram at Dr. Mary pt. Thanks again.